Churches celebrate Darwin`s birthday

[Osborn F Enready]

I am more than happy accepting that people can celebrate and pay homage to any religion, or belief, as long as they are respectful of the rights mutually, with equal respect.

The reason that I say logic, must trump religion, is very simple. It might not be right, but the logic is quite simple so at least we can break it open and address the issue for debate.

The reason is because religion is subjective and logic is universal. Logic is a tool, actually a group of tools in the form of analytical processes. Any person in any part of our physical world can learn these processes and apply them in many different ways to many different things and the results are accurately predicted, because the laws appear to be valid to a marginal measure of error. The processes are repeatable, through example, manipulating elements of the physical world, which is all we KNOW, because it is what we see, touch, feel, drink, eat and survive in and on. Since there are only two things, things we KNOW, and things we DON'T KNOW, we seek tools from the things we know to explain all the properties of the physical world, to the best of our abilities as human beings. We are allowed only the little understanding we have, because of logic. It is logic that could either doom, or extend mankind beyond its natural possibilities. Logic, is the process of evolution in language. Without logic, and common facts, people, or societies if they could exist, wouldn't be able to communicate. Our language, is in fact a matter of evolution of a type. An evolution of recognizing, recording, and comparing observations, tests and nature, and passing it down, through a language is the evolution of logic.

Time, what does it mean to religion?

To science it means everything, as it does to our bodies, our surroundings, our planets, our sun.



Society, is based on logic. The theory itself couldn't exist without logic, or what we attribute the logic label to. Governments also have logic, and that is how they define their platform, method of government, soverignity, etc. The concept of law, and the very presence that would facillitate it, wreaks of logic.

So if the physical world, the societies that people have created, and the governments they allow to govern them are all based on logic, and the tools of logic, how can we then disregard these laws that have explained so much? for a story? that has no provability, no repeatability, just empty promises as far as ANY ONE PERSON knows on this physical world. We see things that are beyond our explanation very rarely anymore (due to logic, and the technology that logic has produced) and still sometimes when we do, though we know science has broken many myths, we still as individuals occasionally seek to attribute these things to the supernatural, gods, angels, devils and such because it makes us feel better, or it "empowers us" through a glimmer of hope for a promise of the "good life" after we leave the world which is all we know if we obey and have faith.

In the physical world, how do you base the value of a promise? What measure do you use to accept a promise from a person you never met, for a lifetime of servitude to a mental construct that forces you to assume that you are born a sinner, and you must repent for your sins when you have done NOTHING, but be born into this world? You give your life to faith in a story, that promises to give you something you can't even prove in THIS WORLD.

Now I am not saying the story is all bad, or the morals are all bad. I am saying the mentality of reasoning for acceptance, is all bad, if allowed to disrupt the understanding of this physical world based in logic, with a notion of "justice" being dealt by putting faith in the mythical.

How could one be so presumptuous to assume that a mythical figure, can speak for my physical person? If so, how dare they define what that mythical figure MUST mean to ME?

This is absolutely a detriment to mankind to place this level of "faith", in "faith".

We are rational. We have reason and logic that SEPERATES US from the animals. WE also have a concious, and a sub-conscious, at least to some degree. We are born with certain instincts, and other things are taught by using logic, or (trial and error) the most basic logical testing sequence. But even now, we still can only communicate using the written or spoken word, therfore we are limited to the fact that the individual can only speak, act, rebel or comply for themselves. If not, what would stop the devil, if there were one, from posing in a false religion and coaxing people to put all of their faith in his faith, which mimmicks all faiths to the point of being indistinguishable on this earth, in the physical world, from the real faith? That would mean that all seeing, all knowing God would have left a trap door the size of the universe in his little project, and he doesn't really see or know to much, since as with logic......

As soon as you think something is fool proof, some damn fool walks in and proves you wrong.

Too err is human, to really fuck with peoples minds takes a GOD! (boogedy boogedy boogedy)

[Boetie]

Osborn F Enreadyposts:Time what does it mean to religion?

Everything. If Time is like an arrow then that would create problems for religions that require Time to be a cycle.

Times arrow is the primary metaphor of Biblical history. God creates the earth once, events in the Bible are unique and occurs only once. Many scholars have identified time's arrow as the most important and distinctive contribution of Jewish thought.

[Osborn F Enready]

Boetie said: Everything. If Time is like an arrow then that would create problems for religions that require Time to be a cycle. Times arrow is the primary metaphor of Biblical history. God creates the earth once, events in the Bible are unique and occurs only once. Many scholars have identified time's arrow as the most important and distinctive contribution of Jewish thought.

I say:
I can buy that, because it makes sense. Still though, doesn't change my position much, nor do I see how it should.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp So you are suggesting that the majority of all those who call themselves Christian are not because they fail to meet your narrow literalist standards? And yet you object to the word "cult"? Odd.

if they do not believe in grace salvation or believe that salvation is a free ticket to live like they wish, then they are not Christian. those are my "narrow literalist standards."

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 if they do not believe in grace salvation or believe that salvation is a free ticket to live like they wish, then they are not Christian. those are my "narrow literalist standards."

You mean, "if they do not believe in grace salvation or believe that salvation is a free ticket to live like they wish and do not literally follow the bible, then they will be doomed for HELL."


edit: since when is there love in fear? Im sure you will have a response----actually im sure the primitive book written thousands of years ago that your cult follows will have the answer.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez edit: since when is there love in fear? Im sure you will have a response----actually im sure the primitive book written thousands of years ago that your cult follows will have the answer.

huh? :confused:

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 huh? :confused:

I am guessing since you did not responsed to the other part of my post, you agree. right?


I am asking you how is their any love in fear?

You may love god and love to follow his will, but you also have the fear that if you do not follow grace salvation, literal interpretation of the bible, and strict bible morals you will go to hell.

again...how can love and fear go hand in hand?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez I am guessing since you did not responsed to the other part of my post, you agree. right? I am asking you how is their any love in fear? You may love god and love to follow his will, but you also have the fear that if you do not follow grace salvation, literal interpretation of the bible, and strict bible morals you will go to hell. again...how can love and fear go hand in hand?

if you do not accept the gift of God that is salvation, you go to hell. you really are trying to shove stupidity down my throat to try and make it come out. guess what, I do not fear hell, for I will never go there.

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 if you do not accept the gift of God that is salvation, you go to hell. you really are trying to shove stupidity down my throat to try and make it come out. guess what, I do not fear hell, for I will never go there.

You mean, you fear hell and do not want to go there, therefore, you follow "the gift of God that is salvation". You first fall in the trap of fear (hell) and then feel comfortable when your cult tells you that if you follow them you won't go to hell.

again, how does fear and love go hand in hand?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez You mean, you fear hell and do not want to go there, therefore, you follow "the gift of God that is salvation". You first fall in the trap of fear (hell) and then feel comfortable when your cult tells you that if you follow them you won't go to hell. again, how does fear and love go hand in hand?

again, in bold faced all caps
[b]I DO NOT FEAR HELL[b] is that clear enough? and even then, fearing hell would do me no good, because hell is not what I love. I love God, and I fear (not the normal definition, the definition that makes it a synonym of deeply respect) God.

[Osborn F Enready]

Brainwashed.

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 fearing hell would do me no good, because hell is not what I love. I love God, and I fear (not the normal definition, the definition that makes it a synonym of deeply respect) God.

You may be in awe of your god, but why?

you said that if you follow god, it will bring you to salvation. You are saying that god will rescue you. I want to know what exactly your god is rescuing you from. Are you in any danger?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez You may be in awe of your god, but why? you said that if you follow god, it will bring you to salvation. You are saying that god will rescue you. I want to know what exactly your god is rescuing you from. Are you in any danger?

all were once condemned to death in hell. Jesus came not to condemn, but to save that which was lost.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

[Osborn F Enready]

So let us be judged, and live your life to yourself.

Bye now.

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 all were once condemned to death in hell. Jesus came not to condemn, but to save that which was lost.

and then Jesus died

and left it up to man to either be CONDEMNED or NOT CONDEMNED. You would agree, no?


Jesus reinstated man's free will by giving us a second chance - either believe in his father or do not believe in his father. However the consequences are if you do not believe in the father you will go to hell.

So I ask again, If there is no fear involved with the love of god then why is there even a choice of descending to the firy pit of death and sin?

This same technique was used on you as a child "if you are a bad little dthmstr254 you won't get candy." You feared not getting candy just like you fear not being able to go to heaven.

[rez]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready So let us be judged, and live your life to yourself. Bye now.

haha another simple easy idea. It's like in order for dthmstr to go to heaven he needs to fill a certain quota. It is almost Like dthmstr needs to recruit 5 non christians into christianity while also following the bible.

Is there something you are not telling us dthmstr?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: rez and then Jesus died and left it up to man to either be CONDEMNED or NOT CONDEMNED. You would agree, no? Jesus reinstated man's free will by giving us a second chance - either believe in his father or do not believe in his father. However the consequences are if you do not believe in the father you will go to hell. So I ask again, If there is no fear involved with the love of god then why is there even a choice of descending to the firy pit of death and sin? This same technique was used on you as a child "if you are a bad little dthmstr254 you won't get candy." You feared not getting candy just like you fear not being able to go to heaven.

and rose again.
1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

[another day]

Quote by: dthmstr254 cult is not the word, my misguided friend. The Bible is the final marker for Christian beliefs, and any Christian belief that doesn't uphold them is not truly Christian.

Cult is the right word. You just don't like it because it has negative connotation.

A modern day cult is the equivalent of your religion, it just hasn't replicated it's meme in many minds and doesn't have the time factor behind it. They are the same thing, a fanatical "prophet" preaches to people and convinces them to follow his teachings etc.

Christianity is one big, out of control, cult. As is any religion.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: another day Cult is the right word. You just don't like it because it has negative connotation. A modern day cult is the equivalent of your religion, it just hasn't replicated it's meme in many minds and doesn't have the time factor behind it. They are the same thing, a fanatical "prophet" preaches to people and convinces them to follow his teachings etc. Christianity is one big, out of control, cult. As is any religion.

wrong, the definition of cult:
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.

most Christians don't follow an authoritarian leader, they follow an authoritative leader.

[rez]

Quote by: dthmstr254 and rose again. 1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Thanks for totally avoiding my questions. If I were a potential customer to become a Christian you would horribly fail at getting me to understand and join the christian faith.