Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter

[Osborn F Enready]

I think all people should be treated the same in the eyes of the law.

If that were ANY average citizen, there would have been a standard questioning on filing the report about alchohol or drugs.

These people helped pass the laws, they should have to endure the full brunt of them when crossing the lines as anyone else.

I am not alledging Cheney WAS drinking, however, I think he should have been treated just the same, and if it is the law for him to pee in a cup, he should have. I would love to see the V.P. get a false positive like some of the poor schmoes I have seen get them, and then still campaign for urine testing like they do now after his life is temporarily ruined.

This was an unfortunate accident as best we can tell, but there is no reason position in life should excuse you from the standards of law, in a society that believes in justice. Even if the law is wrong, that is why you go to court, to prove it wrong and convince the jury to veto the law with their vote of innocence or guilt.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I think all people should be treated the same in the eyes of the law. If that were ANY average citizen, there would have been a standard questioning on filing the report about alchohol or drugs. These people helped pass the laws, they should have to endure the full brunt of them when crossing the lines as anyone else.

Preach on Brother Osborn.


I knew if I waited long enough somebody would get it right.


I love the way they attempt to play on the publics sympathy for "understanding" why they do not wish to be scrutinized by outsiders, or accountable to the long arm of the law. I particularly enjoyed Cheney's attempts at the sheepish looks into the camera hoping to play on that sympathy.

[icurhuman2]

The shooting victim will likely die of his injuries; with so many pellets in his body that will never be removed, including the one that is now nestled in his heart, he dare not move around too much as this will only allow the pellets to migrate further. At 78 one does not suffer gunshot wounds well.
As for the lateness of the announcement to the press, the only disgraceful part of that was that he didn't get up on TV straight away to apologise to the victims family. I imagine they aren't real happy about it all... That "up to a hundred" pellets hit the victim tells anyone with a knowledge of shotguns that the victim was much closer than 30 yards from the business-end of a 28 guage - I would say, looking at the blast pattern described in the press, that 20 feet would be more like the probable distance... Besides the blast pattern, the fact that so many pellets are to be left inside points to close range deep penetration... What will happen when he gets up and walks around and then dies?

[Nono]

Maybe if Cheney had served in the military instead of taking all those draft deferments he'd have been more competent with firearms.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: brien I was perhaps offering a reason why they didn't publish what Dan termed as "scrubbed" from the news reports. Usually responsible reporters verify their sources before going to print.

Actually what they scrubbed was a direct quote from the ranch owner. It was on tape. Thats all they needed. It was a factual account except for her coverup of the fact that Cheney had drank himself. In fact the scrubbed statement only mentioned that beer was in the cooler.
Heres the part that was scrubbed,

Raw Story She says she believes no one that day was drinking, although she says there may have been beer available during a picnic lunch that preceded the incident. "There may be a beer or two in there," she said, "but remember not everyone in the party was shooting."

Whats to verify, brien?
She didnt even say Cheney drank, even though he did. The veep was ignored by his host? OK fine. But why scrub a statement about the beer just being available?

Whoever lied to the game warden and sherriff about the drinking should be arrested for obstruction. Thats a felony.

edit to add:
Where are the empties? Was the scene of the accident scrubbed, too?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Nono Maybe if Cheney had served in the military instead of taking all those draft deferments he'd have been more competent with firearms.

No amount of training can compensate for a reckless soul. Or drunken gunslinging.

This should be a good lesson for the kids; If you are in an accident or shoot somebody. Run away and everything will be fine in the morning, if you can afford to grease the right palms.

Warmongers get away with murder. Its actually profitable to murder. Cheney makes over $200,000.00 per DAY in profit from his Haliburton stock. Anybody here make 200 K per day? Oh and he doesnt pay the same percentage in taxes as you either. How would you like to pay only 15% tax. And that is only on a fraction of revenue. Murder has been very good for Dick. He can afford to go off half-cocked. He can buy innocence.

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Actually what they scrubbed was a direct quote from the ranch owner. It was on tape. Thats all they needed. It was a factual account except for her coverup of the fact that Cheney had drank himself. In fact the scrubbed statement only mentioned that beer was in the cooler. Heres the part that was scrubbed, Whats to verify, brien? She didnt even say Cheney drank, even though he did. The veep was ignored by his host? OK fine. But why scrub a statement about the beer just being available? Whoever lied to the game warden and sherriff about the drinking should be arrested for obstruction. Thats a felony. edit to add: Where are the empties? Was the scene of the accident scrubbed, too?

Ok fair enough. But then WHY did the press not publish the theory that the party was "drunk". Particularly Cheney? Perhaps because there is no smoking gun. (Oh nooooooooo Not the puns again!!!) The fact that one is at a party where people may be in another room smoking dope or snifing cocaine, does that make you a participant in that crime? Because there was alcohol at the ranch doesn't necessarily mean Cheney was hunting intoxicated.

Dan, as I said before, this is nothing more than what other politicians have already done in the past. Certainly no worse. I am as vigilant as you when it comes to holding our elected representatives repsonsible for their actions, but I don't see any evidence of drunkeness in this matter, and apparently neither do the authorities. I am going to move on here.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel YAHOO NEWS It was nice of Cheney to let the guy he shot, have his personal ambulance. Right, this happens all the time. Nothing to see here folks, move along. Mental note: Make sure you dont dress like a quail if you hang with Cheney

http://legitimatereason.blogspot.com/

[Apeman81]

I love this thread! We fiddle while Rome burns!

Perhaps we should attend a bit more closely to the rising evil in Iran and what that may mean to us.

Or maybe the up-arming of China.

Nope! let's make a tempest out of a teapot because we don't like the administration

Enjoy it while you can

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Apeman81 I love this thread! We fiddle while Rome burns! Perhaps we should attend a bit more closely to the rising evil in Iran and what that may mean to us. Or maybe the up-arming of China. Nope! let's make a tempest out of a teapot because we don't like the administration Enjoy it while you can

I love this response to this thread. Were you this incensed over the tempest in a teapot known as Monicagate? I mean, someone has gotten screwed in both scandals, but at least back then, no one got shot... in the face... with a shotgun. If you were a policeman, and had your choice of pursuing one of two cases, would you pick A) Is man guilty of having an affair and lying to cover it up or B) Is man guilty of negligence with a gun where someone was seriously wounded and lying to cover it up? I realize we have no proof that Chenney was drunk at this point. But just because I can not show you a blood alchohol level test, that does not mean Chenney was NOT drunk. It means it has not been proven. If he had talked to someone in law enforcement within, say, an hour of this happening, he would have a much better reason to be "offended" that anyone would suggest the posibility. He didn't, so he has to deal with the clear implication of his not having done so.

I do agree that we would be better off if we could actually deal with some important issues other than this one, but the problem is not that I don't know what is important in the world, the problem is that Chenney and Bush don't know that they are not above the law.

[brien]

Quote by: lsbskins1 I love this response to this thread. Were you this incensed over the tempest in a teapot known as Monicagate? I mean, someone has gotten screwed in both scandals, but at least back then, no one got shot... in the face... with a shotgun. If you were a policeman, and had your choice of pursuing one of two cases, would you pick A) Is man guilty of having an affair and lying to cover it up or B) Is man guilty of negligence with a gun where someone was seriously wounded and lying to cover it up? I realize we have no proof that Chenney was drunk at this point. But just because I can not show you a blood alchohol level test, that does not mean Chenney was NOT drunk. It means it has not been proven. If he had talked to someone in law enforcement within, say, an hour of this happening, he would have a much better reason to be "offended" that anyone would suggest the posibility. He didn't, so he has to deal with the clear implication of his not having done so. I do agree that we would be better off if we could actually deal with some important issues other than this one, but the problem is not that I don't know what is important in the world, the problem is that Chenney and Bush don't know that they are not above the law.

And Kennedy where Mary Jo DIED, and Hillary, where Vince Foster DIED, and all of the rest of the gang. My God, don't you see that they ALL can be painted with the same brush. Where is your sense of fair judgement? Oh, I forgot, in your partisian politics.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Apeman I love this thread! We fiddle while Rome burns! Perhaps we should attend a bit more closely to the rising evil in Iran and what that may mean to us.

Yeah, we wouldnt want them to have nuclear power plant.
Then they could plot against you night and day. The nerve of any nation actually building a nuclear power plant. Just shameful.

I know there are bigger crimes committed evry day by the bush crime syndicate. Mass murder and not just shotgun wounds. Other innocent bystanders are getting bombed without an apology. Just like Cheneys vic never got an apology. Why start now? That would be a sign of weakness, Right?

The reason we are talking about this topic is because that is what this thread is about. So rather than trying to derail this thread, either join in or go to a thread that interests you, Apeman.

On Topic:

CBS Attorney-turned-blogger, Alan Dershowitz speculated: "What is the most likely thing to happen during a 14-hour delay that is worth the negative publicity? One possibility is that it takes approximately that period of time for alcohol to dissipate in the body and no longer be subject to accurate testing. It is fairly common for people involved in alcohol-related accidents to delay reporting them until the alcohol has left the body." Liberal comedian Al Franken was also suspicious. Why didn't Cheney accompany Whittington to the hospital, he questioned. "It’s inconceivable that you don’t go to the hospital unless there’s a reason you don’t go to the hospital. If you had been drinking you wouldn’t go to the hospital," Franken said. "Or, you’re an amazing jerk, that’s the other. Or both." <snip> When asked during the television interview whether anyone in the group had been drinking, Cheney replied, "No, you don't hunt with people who drink. That's not a good idea." Nevertheless, the vice president acknowledged he did have a beer at lunch. Liberal bloggers pounced on the fact that Armstrong insisted there was no drinking. "No, zero, zippo, and I don't drink at all. No one was drinking," Armstrong said in an interview in The Corpus Christi Caller-Times. "Cheney's admission that he was drinking, along with Armstrong's clumsy attempts to downplay the alcohol issue raises more questions than it answers …," blogs John Nichols, author of "The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney." "As with her over-the-top efforts to blame Whittington, the victim, for getting in the way of Cheney's birdshot blast, Armstrong's line on liquor smells a little more like an attempt to cover for the Vice President than full disclosure," Nichols writes.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: brien And Kennedy where Mary Jo DIED, and Hillary, where Vince Foster DIED, and all of the rest of the gang. My God, don't you see that they ALL can be painted with the same brush. Where is your sense of fair judgement? Oh, I forgot, in your partisian politics.

Kennedy is a fair comparison. Similar situation. Kennedy is driving car that goes off of a bridge, instead of calling for help immediately, he thinks first of himself and the implications the accident has for his personal advancement and career.He was probably drunk, causing an innocent friend's death. Maybe Chenney was drunk, maybe he should thank his lucky stars he has a heart condition and has an abulance two feet away from him at all times, otherwise maybe his friend would be just as dead as Mary Jo. Kennedy was DEAD ASS WRONG and if he had done jail time, I would not complain. Find me one Republican who will be as forthright in admiting the Kennedy/Chenney comparison is fair. Vince Foster killed himself and your bringing that up is BULLSHIT and you should know it.It is as relevant as me saying Laura Bush killed someone running a stop sign. This is not about partisan politics, it is about everyone being equally accountable. It is partisan insofar as I believe Republicans are hipocrits who want one set of rules to apply to them while another should apply to "liberals".

[gr8fuldaniel]

Kennedy is a fair comparison. Similar situation. Kennedy is driving car that goes off of a bridge, instead of calling for help immediately,....

You mean on his cell phone? Because the way I heard it he first made a couple of attempts to go back under to save her and then went for help. Exactly what anybody should do.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel You mean on his cell phone? Because the way I heard it he first made a couple of attempts to go back under twice, to save her and then went for help. Exactly what anybody should do.

That's what he says he did. I don't doubt he tried to save her. The fact remains, instead of going and looking for help immediately, he instead "swam the ferry crossing, went to a hotel and slept for a while, called friends and THEN called the authorities. I believe in both cases, the principle was probably negligent on some level, though in neither case was it a matter of meaning to harm anyone. I believe there is a strong possibility in both cases that the principle was drinking and that contributed to the accidents. We do not and can not know, because they both choose to act in such a way that precluded the very tests that would answer the question from being preformed.

[brien]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Kennedy is a fair comparison. Similar situation. Kennedy is driving car that goes off of a bridge, instead of calling for help immediately, he thinks first of himself and the implications the accident has for his personal advancement and career.He was probably drunk, causing an innocent friend's death. Maybe Chenney was drunk, maybe he should thank his lucky stars he has a heart condition and has an abulance two feet away from him at all times, otherwise maybe his friend would be just as dead as Mary Jo. Kennedy was DEAD ASS WRONG and if he had done jail time, I would not complain. Find me one Republican who will be as forthright in admiting the Kennedy/Chenney comparison is fair. Vince Foster killed himself and your bringing that up is BULLSHIT and you should know it.It is as relevant as me saying Laura Bush killed someone running a stop sign. This is not about partisan politics, it is about everyone being equally accountable. It is partisan insofar as I believe Republicans are hipocrits who want one set of rules to apply to them while another should apply to "liberals".

All I am saying is that Cheney hasn't done anything that hasn't been done before by other polticians from BOTH sides of the aisle. If one is going to be outraged by what Cheney is trying to pull off, then please extend your outrage to others that have done the same god damned things as well.

You can't speculate that Mr Whittington's wounds would have killed him if there were no ambulance on site. Well you can, but it serves your argument no purpose. The guy was released from the hospital today. Hardly a case for someone whose life hangs in the balance. Ambulance or no ambulance, that is mere speculation on your part.

Look, I agree that all of these politicians use their offices to hide behind their wrong doing. No problem with the premise. I am just trying to get you partisians to admit it is not exclusive to this adminstration. But you simply dwell on this administration like it is something new on the politicial scene. A bit myopic in my view.

[lsbskins1]

Since I was 2 years 3 months old when Kennedy's accident happened, I really wasn't in much of a position to demand anything of him or question how things were handled. I like to think I would have, though.

[brien]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Since I was 2 years 3 months old when Kennedy's accident happened, I really wasn't in much of a position to demand anything of him or question how things were handled. I like to think I would have, though.

Perhaps, you missed my point. Please just understand that you should sauce the goose with the same sauce you would lay over the gander. Leave partisian politics aside, and you will see that this type of behavior happens in the political system and neither party has a corner on the morals against it. Nothing more and nothing less.

Btw, you make me feel old. I remember when Teddy boy took his swim like it was yesterday, when Bobby was shot down in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel in LA, and unfortunately when his brother's head was blown to pieces in Dallas as well. I remember attending the funeral in DC. All of the crap over the damn since then. My god, where does the time go? :eek:

Back on Monday. A safe weekend to all. :)

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: brien Perhaps, you missed my point. Please just understand that you should sauce the goose with the same sauce you would lay over the gander. Leave partisian politics aside, and you will see that this type of behavior happens in the political system and neither party has a corner on the morals against it. Nothing more and nothing less. Btw, you make me feel old. I remember when Teddy boy took his swim like it was yesterday, when Bobby was shot down in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel in LA, and unfortunately when his brother's head was blown to pieces in Dallas as well. I remember attending the funeral in DC. All of the crap over the damn since then. My god, where does the time go? :eek:

I'm saying implicitly I hold Kennedy to the same standard.I am saying that most liberals/progressives/whatever term you like best, feel the same way I do. I am saying I AM willing to sauce goose and gander. I'm saying conservatives are another matter. Find one Bush supporter on this board who will say that the Kennedy/Chenney comparison is fair. Find one, I dare you.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Yeah, we wouldnt want them to have nuclear power plant. Then they could plot against you night and day. The nerve of any nation actually building a nuclear power plant. Just shameful. I know there are bigger crimes committed evry day by the bush crime syndicate. Mass murder and not just shotgun wounds. Other innocent bystanders are getting bombed without an apology. Just like Cheneys vic never got an apology. Why start now? That would be a sign of weakness, Right? The reason we are talking about this topic is because that is what this thread is about. So rather than trying to derail this thread, either join in or go to a thread that interests you, Apeman. On Topic:

IF you want to make absolutely sure that a hospital not be able to continue to offer care to the people of its community, just ask the Secret Service to prepare the location for a vice presidential visit.