Venezuela expels US naval 'spy'

[Matt W]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4675572.stm

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says he is expelling a US official accused of spying with Venezuelan officers. The naval attache at the US embassy, John Correa, would be forced to "leave immediately", Mr Chavez said in a speech to mark seven years in power. US officials said the charges were baseless and Captain Correa had left for medical treatment and a holiday. Mr Chavez has repeatedly accused the US of supporting attempts to overthrow him, a charge Washington denies.

I see they're comparing Chavez to Hitler these days...he really must have them rattled!

[Milton Bradley]

Damn, I thought comparing people to Hitler was in bad taste, at least it was when I did it to Bush.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Was that a personal stab Bradley? I hope not and wish you could give an actual reply.

It is interesting that Chavez has said bye bye Mr. spy. No doubt there will be many to follow if a country such as Venezuela is taking a stand to this.

[Milton Bradley]

I find it hard to imagine everybody here does not know my position already.


The U.S.'s policies are evil, and the counrty run by criminals with absolutely no compucntion about breaking everybody elses laws while attempting to hold the world up to higher standards. than they hold themselves.


That puts me in the default position of taking Hugo at his word until I have a reason not too. I already know that my representatives in Washington would never consider telling me the truth about the matter, so I would have to pretty stupid to throw my supprot behind these crooks.


I'm about as anti-American as one can be when discussion U.S. policy around the globe.

[Nono]

Quote by: Idmaniac a country such as Venezuela

Is that a racist stab, Id?

[Osborn F Enready]

I think after LEARNING that Manuel Noriega was a CIA agent, AT THE TIME HE WAS PRESIDENT of Panama, says quite a bit about American tactics and lengths to disrupt foreign governments it wants to oust.

Add to that, that Oliver North was smuggling in cocaine and heroine to the U.S. to raise money to fund the Contras with arms without "official" government support.

Add to that, that the U.S. INTERNAL stand on "the War on Drugs" led to us forcing Columbia to change their Constitution, as well as OUR own, so that we could send hit squads to take out Pablo Escobar to CLEAR THE PATH for Pablos competitition, who happened to be a little more "compliant" with CIA demands.

Add to that, that Osama Bin Laden is an EX-CIA trained, U.S. government co-operative. Osama could have been working for the White House to bring down the towers, just like Hitler worked with the Nazi Loyalists to burn down the Reichstag, so people would ACCEPT all the new "Fatherland Security" measures he needed to implement, before he could start exterminating the jews.

Osama's "supposed" attacks against the WTC on 9-11, was the ACTION that opened the door for Bush to go to Iraq, something he planned on doing since WELL before he got in office according to things like the PNAC, and other documents circulated WELL before Bush was in office the FIRST time.

I wish all countries, would act as Hugo is, and call a SPADE A SPADE!!!!

I don't support Hugo, nor do I support socialism, but I even moreso don't support MY government, using these tactics to seize control of and exploit smaller nations, their economies, and the world.

[brien]

Quote by: Matt W http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4675572.stm I see they're comparing Chavez to Hitler these days...he really must have them rattled!

I would second Osborn's post but add just one thing.

To compare some leaders to Adoph Hitler is to diminish the horror and inhumanity of his reign of terror. It is also an massive insult to every Jewish person on the planet. I wish people would get a little more creative in their comparisons and a little less insulting to the victims of Hitler's Anti Semitism.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: brien To compare some leaders to Adoph Hitler is to diminish the horror and inhumanity of his reign of terror.

If we cannot use Hitler and his end, as a warning to future wannabe dictators (Like you know who), then all those who died in the holocaust would come back to haunt us in the form of our own holocaust.

Beware!!
This #2 of The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

If we do NOT speak out, we are guilty of their blood, and the horrors to come.

The horrors of the past are actually diminished by NOT talking about them and taking the steps needed to prevent another tragedy.

Here are #3 &4 from the same link:

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

We owe it to ourselves to be honest about where we are actually going.
Should we all just jump in a bus that gw bush is driving and if he takes a wrong turn, should we all just not say anything? Because he can be really snitty about criticism?

Do I need to remind you what he said AFTER he called the Constitution

link "'It's just a goddamned piece of paper' ... “I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief

This tells us bush is a bad bus driver. He is going off the map.

Wouldnt it be best to keep the bus from flying off a cliff, before we go off the well paved road of democracy?

[gr8fuldaniel]

brien,
The Reichstag (that Osborn mentioned) is a perfect example of the 911 events. Bush milked it for all its worth. Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror. Why dont you direct shame wher it belongs brien? At bush for emulating the worst terrorist of the 20th Century. If bush is left unchecked, he can become the worst of this century. How many innocents has bush murdered so far? Body Counts? No thanx, that might make us "look" bad. If you dont count the women and children of Iraq and Afghanistan, they cant become a viable victim. This regime has taken Hitlers playbook and improved on it to protect themselves.

The Reichstag is where Hitlers gruesome reign began.

Larger
Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to attack Poland. And fire up a a wave of patriotic fervor.

Bush used The World Trade Center to attack Saddam Hussein. And fire up a a wave of patriotic fervor.

How are those Anthrax investigations going? The anthrax that was sent only to Dems who opposed the "Patriot Act"

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel brien, The Reichstag (that Osborn mentioned) is a perfect example of the 911 events. Bush milked it for all its worth. Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror Terror. Why dont you direct shame wher it belongs brien? At bush for emulating the worst terrorist of the 20th Century. If bush is left unchecked, he can become the worst of this century. How many innocents has bush murdered so far? Body Counts? No thanx, that might make us "look" bad. If you dont count the women and children of Iraq and Afghanistan, they cant become a viable victim. This regime has taken Hitlers playbook and improved on it to protect themselves. The Reichstag is where Hitlers gruesome reign began. Larger Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to attack Poland. And fire up a a wave of patriotic fervor. Bush used The World Trade Center to attack Saddam Hussein. And fire up a a wave of patriotic fervor. How are those Anthrax investigations going? The anthrax that was sent only to Dems who opposed the "Patriot Act"

Dan: My point went completely over your head. Please re-read my post. I wrote "some leaders". My statement must be taken within the context of the Jews and the Holocaust. I also wish to only use Hitler when the comparison truly fits the bill. Show me GWB's death camps and 4 million homicides as a result of a systematic roundup of a ethnic portion of our population . Your statements push your credibility towards the boundary of rhetoric when your aren't careful in your writing. You only cheapen the consequences of Hitler while simmultaneously doing a disservice to the Holocaust survivors when you compare Hitler to GWB. I am no fan of GWB, and I am certain SOME of your comparisons to Hitler are valid, but you are pushing the envelope of reason here. Anyone can find comparisons to Hitler with any poltical leader in the world, but when you paint them with the Hitler brush, you must include the genocide of the Jews. Something reasonable people should not be willing to do here.

Compare Pol Pot to Hitler, or perhaps Saddam because of his genocide of the Kurds, but certainly not GWB, or any other leader who hasn't consistently used genocide as a tool in his regime of terror. You zeal to rant against GWB seems to push you towards the boundaries of unreasonable rhetoric. Something I am not willing to particpate in here.

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel If we cannot use Hitler and his end, as a warning to future wannabe dictators (Like you know who), then all those who died in the holocaust would come back to haunt us in the form of our own holocaust. Beware!! This #2 of The 14 Characteristics of Fascism If we do NOT speak out, we are guilty of their blood, and the horrors to come. The horrors of the past are actually diminished by NOT talking about them and taking the steps needed to prevent another tragedy. Here are #3 &4 from the same link: We owe it to ourselves to be honest about where we are actually going. Should we all just jump in a bus that gw bush is driving and if he takes a wrong turn, should we all just not say anything? Because he can be really snitty about criticism? Do I need to remind you what he said AFTER he called the Constitution This tells us bush is a bad bus driver. He is going off the map. Wouldnt it be best to keep the bus from flying off a cliff, before we go off the well paved road of democracy?

Dan You wrote:[quote=gr8fuldaniel]If we cannot use Hitler and his end, as a warning to future wannabe dictators (Like you know who), then all those who died in the holocaust would come back to haunt us in the form of our own holocaust.

I say: Not saying you can't use Hitler in comparison to other leaders. Just compare Apples to Oranges. When GWB systematically rounds up significant portions of one ethnic portion of the American population, herds them into forced labor and death camps, then I will agree with your comparison. Until then, you tread the waters of rhetoric which only detracts from the credibility of your reasonable arguments. :)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Dan: My point went completely over your head. Please re-read my post. I wrote "some leaders".

Ok, then you DONT disagree bush looks like Hitler?




Why did it sound like you were rebuking Os?

Quote by: brien Show me GWB's death camps

We are "Killin' em over there, so we dont have to kill em over here" You cant finish counting until OUR Depleted Uranium has taken its last victim. We will be murdering innocents for a million years. But, of course they are just brown people so we dont even bother to count them.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: brien When GWB systematically rounds up significant portions of one ethnic portion of the American population, herds them into forced labor and death camps, then I will agree with your comparison.

So he has do it exactly the same way for it to be a valid comparison? Does he have to wear a brown shirt and wear a swastika on the SAME ARM too? Use the exact same Salute and wear the exact same mustache? Its gonna be hard to convince you then.

[gr8fuldaniel]

We should probably respect the thread and edge it back on track. I may start a thread later. We do have detainment camps that were used for "Guests" evicted by Katrina.

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Ok, then you DONT disagree bush looks like Hitler? Why did it sound like you were rebuking Os? We are "Killin' em over there, so we dont have to kill em over here" You cant finish counting until OUR Depleted Uranium has taken its last victim. We will be murdering innocents for a million years. But, of course they are just brown people so we dont even bother to count them.

Please Dan.. Your are kidding correct. Your stretch borders upon anti semetic rhetoric and you don't even realize it.

You comparison of murdring the Jews in labor and death camps by Hitler really does diminish the seriousness of what Hitler did when you compare it to GWB actions. It is an insult to Jews. Are you really anti semetic? If you doubt me, ask a Rabbi. And if he doesn't agree with me, then I will apologize to you. But I doubt he will agree with you. Your extreme rhetoric here tends to diminish the credibility of your other points when I think you are coming from a anti semetic pov.

You wrote: Why did it sound like you were rebuking Os?

I wrote in that post :I would second Osborn's post but add just one thing

I write: Dan, You really need to re read the post, again. Perhaps, you are drawing conclusions just for an argument. I don't know. But please, read and understand the post before you draw incorrect conclusions and attribute them to me. Thanks, man.

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel We should probably respect the thread and edge it back on track. I may start a thread later. We do have detainment camps that were used for "Guests" evicted by Katrina.

Another insult to Jews. Is this is a sick joke? You, perhaps should take to take a trip to the Holocaust Museum down in DC. Then come back a adjust your hysterics here.

I have the greatest respect and honor for the six million jews who were murdered by Hitler. My trucks hauled every pound of steel to build the museum down in DC. I don't for one second take what Hitler did lightly and compare it to anyone or anything that isn't a real and just comparison. It cheapens the lives of those Six million innocent people, and diminishes the respect we should have for their suffering. It is anti semetic, clear and obvious and certainly has no room here on these boards.

So please, before you make statements like this one:We do have detainment camps that were used for "Guests" evicted by Katrina.[/quote]

Please understand what the Jew experienced in a "detainment camp" before you use the term so lightly and compare it to what happened after Katrina.

Just how far will you go to try an prove you anti semetic points?

Sorry, Dan, it doesn't wash with me. :(

[gr8fuldaniel]

Bush isnt done yet, either. How much did hitler get away with?

Bush can get away with that much and more.......

Developing

[Rainbow]

In Washington, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld described the election of a string of left-wing leaders in the region as worrying. "[Chavez] is a person who was elected legally, just as Adolf Hitler was elected legally and then consolidated power," he said. "Now [Chavez] is of course working closely with [Cuban President] Fidel Castro and [Bolivian President Evo] Morales and others. "It concerns me."

Political skirmishes over "spying" take place routinely, and that is a normal procedure
However, I thought that political moronity takes place on Internet, and only.
I was wrong.

Comparing Chavez to Hitler ?! :-)))))
Rumsfeld seems to got heavily influenced and/or encouraged by internet-made-politician-wanna-be intellectualists, by presenting such findings.

Saddam compared to Hitler
Bush compared to Hitler
Stalin compared to Hitler
Hitler compared to himself
Ect.

I bet Adolf gets some points, in "Hell", and "Devil" must be delighted.
He becomes a "very popular" figure, these days, since (Hitler) is being used by all the sides as a point of comparison.
That is Mankind - XXI century. Imbecility rules.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Quote by: Nono Is that a racist stab, Id?

Nono, are you going to argue or just make me look bad?

I'll assume the second.

Now to explain.

When I say a country such as Venezuela, I of course do not mean stupid people with no money nor jobs or a brain such that some would have me think.

Rather my point is to say that Venezuela, a country plagued by the FARC's and a country of constant poverty, strikes, and political turmoil has the guts and the strong foot to finally set down the way they feel things should be is an extrodinary show of power and bravery, which is something not too common in Venezuela. (At least now honest bravery and power)

Nono, argue my point and stop making erronious claims. I myself have made the claim because I recognize the original poster of this topic has said nothing to Bradley to directly contradict or challenge him in the past and was irked at the poor display of respect on Bradley's part.

Argue up Nono, otherwise please feel free to quiet down

[dilligras]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel We are "Killin' em over there, so we dont have to kill em over here" You cant finish counting until OUR Depleted Uranium has taken its last victim. We will be murdering innocents for a million years. But, of course they are just brown people so we dont even bother to count them.

Lemmeeseenow......first you make a totally inaccurate statement, proving that you don't know what you're talking about, then you follow it up by using that inaccuracy to support a specious accusation of racism.........you usually get a pass on such fallacious hate-speech, do you?

Do you even know what depleted uranium is? What does the word, "depleted" mean in your neck of the woods? Guess what it is that has been depleted from the uranium........do you think perhaps they might be referring to the radioactive isotopes?

From the link:

Thus, depleted uranium does not significantly add to the background radiation that we encounter every day.