SWAT team shoots "armed" 8th grader.

[kalel29]

Well, he shouldn't have been dumb enough to point a rifle at a police officer, irregardless of the type of ammunition it fired off. I had an uncle who did the exact same thing. He wanted to committ suicide and pointed his gun at police. They promptly shot him, but he's still alive and serving a 10yr sentence for being a moron. :rolleyes:

[dthmstr254]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060115/...hool_evacuated LONGWOOD, Fla. - The parents of a 15-year-old boy accused of terrorizing classmates with a pistol warned authorities the weapon likely was fake before police shot him in a middle school bathroom, a family attorney said Saturday. Christopher Penley, of Winter Springs, was accused of pulling a pellet gun in a classroom Friday and pointing it at other students. When he later raised the weapon at a deputy, a SWAT team member shot him, authorities said. Penley was clinically brain dead Saturday, said family attorney Mark Nation. "His organs are in the process of being harvested," Nation said. Officers who had responded to the 1,100-student school in suburban Orlando believed the gun was a Beretta 9mm, and didn't learn until after the shooting that it was a pellet gun. The boy's parents, Ralph and Donna Penley, were in contact with authorities during the incident and told them they believed Penley did not have a real gun, Nation said. Ralph Penley went to the school to attempt to talk his son out of the situation. "When he got to the school, they would not let him in and he was later told Christopher had been shot," Nation said. Friends and investigators say Penley was bullied and emotionally distraught, and went to school that day expecting to die. Patrick Lafferty, a 15-year-old neighbor who has known Penley about six years, said he wasn't surprised by what happened. He said Penley was a loner who "told me he wanted to kill himself dozens of times." "He would put his headphones on and walk up and down the street and he would work out a lot," preferring to keep to himself, Lafferty said. Kelly Swofford, a family spokeswoman and neighbor of the boy's parents, said the boy had run away from home several times. Her 11-year-old son, Jeffery Swofford, said Penley had said he had something planned. "He said `I hope I die today because I don't really like my life,'" Jeffery Swofford said. Maurice Cotey, 13, told WKMG-TV in Orlando that he struggled with Penley over the gun after everyone else left the classroom. "He got me towards the closet door, he turned me around, and ... started to point the gun at me, so I started to grab for it. And he pulled it away and then I grabbed for it one more time, .... twisted it and I pointed it at him." Cotey said after he put the gun to Penley's legs, the gunman kicked him into the closet, where the two scuffled further, before Penley ran out of the classroom. The school went into lockdown. From there, Seminole County Sheriff Don Eslinger said, Penley traversed the Milwee Middle School campus before ending up in a bathroom. By then, more than 40 officers, including SWAT and negotiators, were on scene. He refused to drop the firearm, Eslinger said, and was shot after pointing it at a SWAT deputy. Jeffery Swofford said Penley had been in a disagreement with someone, allegedly over a girl. There was going to be a fight Friday, he said. "I heard a rumor that he had a BB gun, but I didn't think he really had one," he added.

this might be an update, but it doesn't seem to break the rules

[Scribbler1]

Before the inevitable lawsuit starts I hope all concerned take heed of this:

The boy's parents, Ralph and Donna Penley, were in contact with authorities during the incident and told them they believed Penley did not have a real gun, Nation said. Ralph Penley went to the school to attempt to talk his son out of the situation. (bolding mine)

If that's true then it isn't enough to stop the cops from shooting the kid. Even if the parents were SURE the gun was fake, who is to say he didn't leave the house with a pellet gun and replace it with the real thing on the way to school? A "likely" fake just isn't enough when it looks like people are in obvious danger.

That this an extremely tragic event is an understatement but I hope these cops aren't ruined by this. If the facts in the article are all true, of course. Nevertheless I'm sure the lawyers will do what lawyers do, even if the kid orchestrated the whole thing.

[Jack]

Teen Shot by Police Is Brain Dead

He is now eligible for full membership at Volconvo.

(Oh, don't moan and groan. You all were thinking that. I just decided to be the one who said it. Go ahead, hate me. I wish to be persecuted for my faith in humor. )

[Scribbler1]

>groan<

On second thought...>GROAN!!!<

[Charon]

This is an immense tragedy for all concerned. Police don't want to use deadly force, but sometimes that's all that's left.

It seems that the parents should have noticed a problem with their son's behavior prior to this incident.

[Jack]

It seems that the parents should have noticed a problem with their son's behavior prior to this incident.

Yeah, I wonder if they were aware of his having altered the pellet gun to resemble a real firearm. Did they just dismiss it as childish behavior?

Now comes the political spin.

[Charon]

Actually, I've seen pellet guns that can't be distinguished from Beretta's, or .45-cal Colts until you get real close. And those come from the factory that way.

[Jack]

I have too, but these days there's a regulation that all "toy" guns have a red tipped barrel to prevent this sort of thing. But plenty are sold that fail to follow that regulation. There are also target pellet guns that are pretty well made (i.e. metal). I'm not sure if they're under the same reg's or not.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Isherwood I have too, but these days there's a regulation that all "toy" guns have a red tipped barrel to prevent this sort of thing. But plenty are sold that fail to follow that regulation. There are also target pellet guns that are pretty well made (i.e. metal). I'm not sure if they're under the same reg's or not.

I don't care how you look at it. it just isn't gonna be pretty.

[tinybear]

I think it's despicable behavior on his part, don't you? I mean if you wanna commit suicide, just do it quietly. Why kick up such a big fuss and get the police in trouble?

[Jack]

Some people are even rather creative in the way they exit this life. You can at least go out with a little style. :)

I agree, involving anyone else in your personal stupidity is disgusting. But I guess the final result is the ultimate penalty to pay.

[Chris]

Quote by: dthmstr254 this might be an update, but it doesn't seem to break the rules

Just reply -any and all updates or any discussion relating to a story within the existing thread. Don't start new, parallel threads.

Do not respond to this in the thread. Send me a PM if you want to discuss.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Charon It seems that the parents should have noticed a problem with their son's behavior prior to this incident.

That's easier said than done. Too many parents just don't seem to connect with a kid's mind once they become adults and some who try to do that are faced with not only the task of terying to understand how their kid thinks but to measure that against a changing society.

What seems normal today is a little disturbing to even enlightened people of my generation. Sometimes it's just hard to tell a moody kid from a potential psycho.

[Osborn F Enready]

Yes Isherwood, they all have to comply now with the "red barrell" markings.

The stupid thing is to me, that the guns are not SOLD to minors, therefore it is not the guns fault this happened, it is the parents.

When I was 15, I had several pellet guns like that one, different models, and I modified them all to look as real as possible. I also used to wear camoflage when I was 15 because I wanted to join a military school. I also played guns in my neighborhood all through my childhood. I watched war movied, played war video games, had plastic army men of all varities to play with, owned a real gun, and several knives. I used to practice scaling buildings at night by climbing the local Libbey Owens Ford Devlopment Center, because it had big protruding ledges and brick abuttments. Everything above, I think today, would be viewed as being "questionable", or "unhealthy" behaviour, yet I and several friends did it from dusk to dawn, in a lot of our freetime, including bb-gun wars.

What is odd to many but not us, is how all who did that,that I knew as children, grew up to be decent, moral, respectful people, who function and perform in daily life as well as anyone deemed to be "normal".

It only goes to show how times have changed, as well as attitudes, and while I can agree that most of those things wouldn't be very smart in todays climate due to inherant risk factors from police, and the overall anxiety in the climate about "unstable teens" since Columbine and its offshoots, I still feel that it wrong to label a character type such as this as being "disturbed".

This kid who did this in the topic post, was obviously not being raised well, or had some serious issues with some type of identity crisis and peer pressure, as his detachment from society was well known, by both friends and local neighbors.

Teens today have more stress between 13 and 18 years old then I think they will at any other time in their lives, and it is only common sense that when we have public school systems that can't connect with kids individually, and parents who work two jobs to get by, with no extra time for their kids, we are going to get kids that are not ready for this stress, and crack like an egg when exposed to it full frontal.

Also, KALEL, it was a pistol type pellet gun, not a rifle.....

Here is a website that sells Daisy Air Soft pellet guns/replicas.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/air_sof...guns_s/112.htm
http://www.pentagondefense.com/targe...soft-guns.html

[bishop]

isn't this why bean bag guns were made???

[Osborn F Enready]

I agree Bishop, as well as tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets, projectile dispersion nets, and tons of other ridiculous non-lethal weapons.

I guess they only use them when it suits "them".

I just don't understand how when so much doubt existed about the gun being real, IF the cops knew about a "possibility" of it not being real, why did they not armor up with ballistic armor, shields and non-lethal weapons that they CLAIM they need to save lives? non-lethal weapons didn't save his life, nor did it save the cop who had to shoot him any grief over killing a child.

There is no easy answer, but there is a clear lesson as to how to later form a better answer than we have now.

[bishop]

i can't say i've ever had much respect for cops.. state troopers are the only ones that i've respected - probably because the standards for being a trooper are MUCH higher than municipal/county cops.. when i see a trooper, i feel at least like i'm talking to another intelligent, educated person.. when i see a regular ol' cop, i think they're lucky they aren't working at a gas station or flipping burgers.

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this kid killed by a municipal/county cop?

[shield772]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I agree Bishop, as well as tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets, projectile dispersion nets, and tons of other ridiculous non-lethal weapons. I guess they only use them when it suits "them". I just don't understand how when so much doubt existed about the gun being real, IF the cops knew about a "possibility" of it not being real, why did they not armor up with ballistic armor, shields and non-lethal weapons that they CLAIM they need to save lives? non-lethal weapons didn't save his life, nor did it save the cop who had to shoot him any grief over killing a child. There is no easy answer, but there is a clear lesson as to how to later form a better answer than we have now.

I think they are calling them less than lethal weapons these days, and not every department can afford them or chooses not to buy them, the sheriff of the county may not agree with them.

[shield772]

Quote by: bishop i can't say i've ever had much respect for cops.. state troopers are the only ones that i've respected - probably because the standards for being a trooper are MUCH higher than municipal/county cops.. when i see a trooper, i feel at least like i'm talking to another intelligent, educated person.. when i see a regular ol' cop, i think they're lucky they aren't working at a gas station or flipping burgers. correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this kid killed by a municipal/county cop?

In Florida the standars for Law Enforcement are state wide, with the excertion of individual department and municipality procedures every LEO in Florida has the exact same training and standards, and it was a Deputy Sheriff SWAT officer.