Zawahiri 'not hit by US missile'

[gr8fuldaniel]

No "proof of life" was included with that Video you offerred. That was nice of OBL to release that just in time to help bush win the 2004 election. There is nothing to prove OBL survived the winter of 2001-2002. Did he have some kind of dialysis rigged to his bmx bike to get him from cave to cave?
In fact his obituary was published in a Turkish paper (couldnt find link right away)
Even if OBL survived his failed kidneys and the video is legit, OBL didnt actually admit he personally had any involvement in 911. He said he understood the motive of 911. The video was not released in its entirety. The transcript can be read here.
Here is an interesting snippet of the economics involved.

<snip> This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat. All Praise is due to Allah. So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah. That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains. Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results. And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ. And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than $500 billion. Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs. As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars. And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the mujahidin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - with Allah's permission. More .... http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C36E87F61F.htm

Your link to the UN document gave me an error message

There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link, - Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or - Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or - You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application. Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means.

I will try to resolve this. Short of paying $50 a month for broadband

[bishop]

if he was supposedly dead prior to this video, then why waste the energy giving value to his statements? and it's also interesting that you would seem to give credence to some obscure obiturary in a turkish paper over clear video footage of bin laden (where he referenced the presidential race - proving that he lived in 2004).. .

i think it's clear that you're just going to believe whatever you want to believe dan, no matter how far you have to stretch or whatever contradictory statements you may make.

[bishop]

maybe this link will work better for you..

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/G...df?OpenElement

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: bishop if he was supposedly dead prior to this video, then why waste the energy giving value to his statements?

I am just allowing for variations since we (or at least, I) cant rely on the official story. Am I supposed to just always trust our gubmint, unflinchingly? Have they EVER shown themselves trustworthy?

and it's also interesting that you would seem to give credence to some obscure obiturary in a turkish paper over clear video footage of bin laden (where he referenced the presidential race - proving that he lived in 2004).. .

Have you been to the movies lately? Amazing what they can do. The video could have been taken years ago, they have had plenty of time to dub in words here and there and brush in a little grey in the beard.

i think it's clear that you're just going to believe whatever you want to believe dan, no matter how far you have to stretch or whatever contradictory statements you may make.

I dont want to believe, I have to believe. Until my doubts are assuaged.
Contradictory?
A) Did the transcript of the video offer a confession? I didnt see it.
B) Is there proof of life?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Here is video proof that bush is drinking again http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/georgebushdrunk.mov

[underbear1]

This was a surgical strike, unfortunately the morphine addicted surgeon has been banned from medical practice a decade ago.

[underbear1]

If this was one of our few Muslim allies, that had a weak central government and powerful military linked to equally powerful tribal Lords,,,,,,,,this could be BAD. But the Neo Cons have been right about everything so far in the War on terrorism, so it'd just be bad form second guessing them at this late date.

[Nono]

Precisely. You'd have to be some sort of gutless liberal pansy freak to question Final Wisdom. After all, nothing succeeds like success.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: underbear But the Neo Cons have been right about everything so far in the War on terrorism,.....

Except a minor flaw here and there. (OBL and Saddam Hussein)

LINK Bin Laden denies being behind attacks Associated Press Last Updated: Sept. 16, 2001. Dubai, United Arab Emirates - Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect, issued a statement Sunday denying that he was behind last week's terror attacks on the United States. "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation," said the statement, broadcast by Qatar's Al-Jazeera satellite channel. In the statement, read out by an Al-Jazeera announcer, bin Laden said that he was used to the United States accusing him every time "its many enemies strike at it." Bin Laden, a Saudi exile who has lived in Afghanistan since 1996, has said on at least one other occasion that he wasn't behind the attacks. Jamal Ismail, a Palestinian journalist, has said a bin Laden aide called him after Tuesday's attack to say bin Laden denied being involved but "thanked almighty Allah and bowed before him when he heard this news." more....

[gr8fuldaniel]

We know it was not a surprise attack because the dogs didnt bark.
It was an inside job.

The Secret Service at Booker Elementary:
The Dog That Did Not Bark

[underbear1]

Quote by: Nono Precisely. You'd have to be some sort of gutless liberal pansy freak to question Final Wisdom. After all, nothing succeeds like success.

You forgot to mention how unChristian it'd be, and "it'd demoralize the troops"......that's my favorite.

[brien]

Quote by: Nono http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4612400.stm How do Americans react when their citizens are killed by incoming explosives as they go about their business?

Well I can only give you one example, besides maybe Pearl Harbor. The Trade Center attack and demolition. In one case, Congress declared war, and in the other, well we know that is an ongoing excuse for what happened over the weekend.

Problem is, when their target is in a nation that the US needs in its corner for this "war on terror", they alienate the very people who could be instrumental in apprehending the "villans" they seek to catch. Way to go boys!

They're fucking fools to try what they did in Pakistan. They alienated Pakistan by one idiotic move that risks the entire credibility of the US, if we even had any, in trying to kill the US bogeymen. The result of this attack is now thousands of people in the street calling the US their enemy and chanting "Death to the US." Way to go boys!

Oh those good ol boys in the CIA. They can't ever seem to get anything right. Except maybe spying on their own people.

The US should immediately apologise, offer the village reparations / restitution, and even consider offering up the schmoes who called for the attack to surrender to the Pakistani Courts.

I can't even begin to imagine the sorrow, the resentment, and the anger in that village now. If I were a villager, I'd proabably would join up for "the cause" in light of this situation.

I am embarrassed, ashamed, and downright angry with the US Government action in this matter today.

[iHu]

More faulty intelligence resulting in unecessary casualties = more inspired jihadists. We help them manufacture the terrorist jihad with such maneuvers, intentionally or not.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: iHu More faulty intelligence resulting in unecessary casualties = more inspired jihadists. We help them manufacture the terrorist jihad with such maneuvers, intentionally or not.

That man over there is shooting into an unarmed crowd!

Don't do anything to get him angry!

[pubmanager]

Quote by: Apeman81 That man over there is shooting into an unarmed crowd! Don't do anything to get him angry!

Hey Ape why don't you do it the Bush way?

Just declare war on all men with guns who shoot into unarmed crowds (not as catchy as war on terror but I'm pushed for time) and go off to another sovereign country and shoot your gun into an unarmed crowd because you thought there might be a man there with a gun who may or may not have shot into an unarmed crowd at some point in the past. Don't forget to tell everyone that you're doing it all to protect them from men with guns. :confused: :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

[Apeman81]

Quote by: pubmanager Hey Ape why don't you do it the Bush way? Just declare war on all men with guns who shoot into unarmed crowds (not as catchy as war on terror but I'm pushed for time) and go off to another sovereign country and shoot your gun into an unarmed crowd because you thought there might be a man there with a gun who may or may not have shot into an unarmed crowd at some point in the past. Don't forget to tell everyone that you're doing it all to protect them from men with guns. :confused: :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

Yup! Tha's zactkly what happened. Yessiree, Bob, you got the finger on that one!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: iHu More faulty intelligence resulting in unecessary casualties

Yup. And we dont even know how many Americans will have to die because of it. Resident bush isnt worried about it. He will do it again and again because "Terror" has served him well. Both by giving him a boost in the polls after 911. And then his terrorism in Iraq got him reselected (No thanx to the 3 Debates he lost, and A lot of help from the election fraudsters). Resident bush has no clue about accountability. Yet.
An impeachment could be the best thing to ever happen to him.

Terrorist pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations is how wars start. Dont act all surprised if we get hit again.
This is why I call it a war OF terrorism, not ON terrorism.

[Charon]

On the National news tonight, they claimed 4-representatives of Zawahiri were killed in the attack. They were apparently sent because of suspicions Zawahiri had.

If this is true, then wasn't the attack justified?

[pubmanager]

Quote by: Charon On the National news tonight, they claimed 4-representatives of Zawahiri were killed in the attack. They were apparently sent because of suspicions Zawahiri had. If this is true, then wasn't the attack justified?

Only if you choose to believe that blowing up innocent women and children is OK.

What is the difference between USA blowing up innocent civilians and a terrorist blowing up innocent civilians?

[bishop]

the only difference is how the attacks are spun.

i don't think these women and children were direct targets, although i doubt we cared that they were at risk of being killed in the attack). perhaps that's the only distinction between us and al qaeda - a distinction without difference imo.

i maintain that if we used special ops (that would've had to make a visual ID on the target before shooting), none of this outrage would exist right now. especially since they'd be using sniper rifles instead of bombs. instead, people would be relieved that we just eliminated al qaeda's #2 man.