Tories jump into clear lead

[Matt W]

Subsidies are a redistribution of wealth to a sector that would otherwise fail. It's social engineering. Therefore it's socialist, surely?

[SteveA]

Quote by: Matt W Subsidies are a redistribution of wealth to a sector that would otherwise fail. It's social engineering. Therefore it's socialist, surely?

Yes. There are degrees of centralized planning though so it's not really black or white. I use approximate % of resources controlled by government as a measure.

Basically the more economic resources controlled by force or coercion, the more socialized it is. Taxes in the U.S. are over 50% of GDP when you sales, income, indirect and property taxes at the federal, state, local levels. Taxation of 100% is better defined as simply slavery, IMO. So a purely socialist government would seem in this range to control maybe 80% of GDP. Anything above that seems almost unmanageable without forced labor, like mandatory government employment (sometimes referred to community service) as there's little incentive for anyone to work and only receive 1/5th of their labor.

So if a government controlling 80% of the GDP is 100% socialized, then a tax rate of over 50% GDP, like in the U.S. would correlate to something like a 65% socialized government. There are other ways, through regulations that can also control the economy. In California, the state government alone employs 1 out of every 7 people. Yes, calling the U.S. a socialist government is pretty accurate. I'd guess that before WW II, Hitler's socialist party probably had less control over the German economy than government in the U.S. has over the U.S. economy now. Bush has increased this level as well, because despite tax cuts government spending has still increased so there's still more government money directing the economy. There aren't many people in the U.S. that have tried to describe Bush as a fiscal conservative either. He's truly liberal when it comes to spending and increasing social programs. He's given tons of money to the pharmaceutical industries alone and added more to educational spending also. Bailouts have been given to the airlines and federal resources are going toward rebuilding after Katrina. We have many government agencies in charge of regulating various sectors of the economy FAA, FCC, FDA, ATF etc. and Medicare, Social Security, SSI, welfare, low income housing along with state level programs. WICS, MediCal, they've added mandatory community in school for my kids. There are a lot of other agencies and programs but you get the idea. Maybe you guys have a few more but we're catching up fast. BTW, government owns over half the land in the U.S. now also.

[Disinterested]

Quote by: Matt W Subsidies are a redistribution of wealth to a sector that would otherwise fail. It's social engineering. Therefore it's socialist, surely?

Sometimes subsidies are used as a measure to thwart unfair trade practices to level the playing field as in Adam Smith's "invisible hand" of government. Subsidies are not necessarily socialist.

[Nono]

Quote by: Dis Sometimes subsidies are used as a measure to thwart unfair trade practices to level the playing field as in Adam Smith's "invisible hand" of government. Subsidies are not necessarily socialist.

And what are the "unfair trade practices" against which the US government subsidizes US agriculture to the tune of mega-billions?

[Disinterested]

Quote by: Nono And what are the "unfair trade practices" against which the US government subsidizes US agriculture to the tune of mega-billions?

they'd probably say all of it.

[rcne]

Mon., Jan. 16, 2006 Think twice The result of next Monday's election outcome is now assumed, more or less, throughout the campaign war rooms of nearly all the parties. Yes, yes, that "more or less" bit still matters – there are plenty of seats across Canada, which could be the difference between a Tory majority or minority. But it does seem clear that's the shape of things to come – the Liberals about to take a drubbing, and the Conservative broom sweeping into Ottawa.

I was wondering why the Canadian elections weren't getting much exposure outside Canada. From what I've read Harper and the conservatives will be making some changes in Ottawa.

If he happens to come in with a majority, watch out. The Liberals only hope to stem the swing to the right is to hope for a minority.

So Nono, how wide do you think the house cleaning will be? Of course, polls are notorious for hype, but it does seem that at least the Tories will make substantial gains.

[Nono]

Quote by: rcne So Nono, how wide do you think the house cleaning will be? Of course, polls are notorious for hype, but it does seem that at least the Tories will make substantial gains.

This is one of most interesting federal races in memory.

The Tories will certainly make gains, but how significant? Don't forget, simply to draw even with the Liberals the Tories will have to enjoy a net gain of 18 seats vis-à-vis the Liberals while the Libs suffer a net loss of 18 vis-à-vis the Tories. Easier said than done.
Even if they did this, the Tories would still be 40 seats short of a majority.

Also, we're talking about a Conservative party that's an uneasy coalition between old-style real Tories and the western-yahoo-redneck "reform" party that it so recently joined together with.
Plus Stephen Harper is widely viewed as a complete dingbat for whom only widespread disaffection with the Libs would prompt people to vote. There is that dissatisfaction, though.

Among the many fascinating questions will be what will happen to the NDP, whose share of the seats is always far below its share of the popular vote. More than ever this time, NDPers will be holding their noses and marking the ballot for the Liberal candidate as a means of keeping the Tories out.

For the first time in a long time the Tories could win a couple of seats in Quebec as the anti-Liberal protest vote shifts their way from the Bloc.

And this is one election that could be decided in the West. Usually the thing is basically all over when the polls close in Quebec and Ontario. But a lot of seats may change hands in Saskatchewan and British Columbia. So it could conceivably be a cliff-hanger.

[Nono]

Toronto Star

(...) EKOS Research Associates survey conducted for the Star and La Presse shows that though the Conservatives look poised to topple the Liberals, voters may only give Harper the test drive of a minority government in Monday's election. Nationally, the Tories enjoy the support of 37.1 per cent of decided voters compared with 26.9 per cent for Paul Martin's Liberals, 19.5 per cent for the New Democrats of Jack Layton, 11.5 for the Bloc Québécois led by Gilles Duceppe and 4.6 for the Green Party led by Jim Harris. The undecided vote stood at 16 per cent. (...)

This is some comfort, according with my hope that the Tories peaked early (having "jumped into clear lead" several weeks ago). What would they be able to do with a minority government? Not a whole hell of a lot more than the Liberals were able to.
Which is just as well.

I also hope that the Tories' new-found popularity (37% dig it) will actually hurt them in Quebec. Why? Because a lot of non-separatist Quebeckers have been voting Bloc as a protest against the Liberals, traditionally the province's most powerful party. Now it looks like a lot of those protest voters could migrate to the Tories, which could split the vote and see the Liberals come up the middle in a lot of ridings.

Then there's the West...

[rcne]

It was my impression that the Bloc was splitting and those non-separatist were voting Conservative. Then there is the West, they finally are becoming known.

Its the West and the ex-Bloc that may have enough political steam to push the minority to a majority for the conservative.

Interesting times for our neighbors to the North.

[Nono]

The West (is) finally (...) becoming known.

Well it's less populous than the East, but is occasionally the scene of political change. It may be this time, and if so it won't be the first time. After all, North America's first universal-medicare programme was introduced in Saskatchewan in the early 60s.

Its the West and the ex-Bloc that may have enough political steam to push the minority to a majority for the conservative.

Possibly ... or the ex-Bloc which could, conceivably, sink them completely. This is a first-past-the-post electoral system after all.