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**Matt W** · Jan 3, 2006, 01:14 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4577578.stm

Quote:

US air strike kills Iraqi family

Fourteen members of one family have been killed in a US air strike that destroyed a house in northern Iraq, an Iraqi official has said.
An Iraqi official from the body that liaises between Iraqi and US forces said the attack occurred in Baiji, 200km (125 miles) north of Baghdad.

The US military has made no immediate comment on the report.

Another friendly fire incident. :(

Mr.Vicchio · Jan 3, 2006, 01:22 pm

No disrespect for the dead, but why is this "breaking news"?

tinybear · Jan 3, 2006, 01:23 pm

I think the insurgents are to blame. What do you think?

**Matt W** · Jan 3, 2006, 01:24 pm

I think you, like the rest of us, have no data to judge this incident on. I view it as a tragedy and am awaiting more info.

**Matt W** · Jan 3, 2006, 01:25 pm

Quote:

No disrespect for the dead, but why is this "breaking news"?

Headline news on the BBC, Mr. V. That kinda counts.

Zeebadee · Jan 3, 2006, 01:33 pm

The BBC? Hey, we all know those leftist liberal pinko comsymdupes always lie. I'll bet there was really no more than 12 members of the family killed. Just more collateral damage.

RickSp · Jan 3, 2006, 02:40 pm

Mr V doesn't want to hear and Tiny somehow thinks that either insurgents were flying US aircraft or that the insurgents can be blamed for everything. I guess it was the inusrgents who lied us into this needless war.

Scribbler1 · Jan 3, 2006, 07:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

Headline news on the BBC, Mr. V. That kinda counts.

It would have been breaking news if frigging CLINTON was in the White House.

dotcoma · Jan 3, 2006, 07:56 pm

Matt, you did not post this part:

Quote:

US military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Barry Johnson said the men, who ran into the house after digging a hole, were assesed as a threat to civilians and military forces.

"An unmanned aerial vehicle... observed the would-be attackers as they dug a hole following the common pattern of roadside bomb emplacement," he told the AFP news agency.

"The individuals left the road site and were followed from the air to a nearby building. Coalition forces employed precision guided munitions on the structure."

Zeebadee · Jan 3, 2006, 08:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: dotcoma

Matt, you did not post this part:

Well, then, those women and kids that let the three guys into the house got exactly what they deserved, didn't they? They should have just politely told the guys to go to the next house.

Scribbler1 · Jan 3, 2006, 08:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zeebadee

Well, then, those women and kids that let the three guys into the house got exactly what they deserved, didn't they? They should have just politely told the guys to go to the next house.

I can see it now, "hey you guys, didn't you see the NO PEDDLERS and NO INSURGENTS sign on the lawn?"

**Matt W** · Jan 3, 2006, 08:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: dotcoma

Matt, you did not post this part:

Quote:

US military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Barry Johnson said the men, who ran into the house after digging a hole, were assesed as a threat to civilians and military forces.

"An unmanned aerial vehicle... observed the would-be attackers as they dug a hole following the common pattern of roadside bomb emplacement," he told the AFP news agency.

"The individuals left the road site and were followed from the air to a nearby building. Coalition forces employed precision guided munitions on the structure."

At the time, dotcoma, that wasn't actually on the link. A good 6 hours elapsed between my initial post and you commentary - I went with what was there.

figure8 · Jan 3, 2006, 08:38 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zeebadee

Well, then, those women and kids that let the three guys into the house got exactly what they deserved, didn't they? They should have just politely told the guys to go to the next house.

I'm sure that the armed insurgents gave the probably unarmed women and their kids a lot of choice in the matter, that is if those women weren't so scared for the lives of their kids that they didn't risk putting up any resistance.

RickSp · Jan 3, 2006, 08:40 pm

That is the army's story anyway. The only thing we can be absolutely sure of is that women and children died.

Quote:

Local police chief Colonel Sufyan Mustafa said he believed there were no anti-US insurgents present in the house.

So far, the bodies of a nine-year-old boy, an 11-year-old girl, three women and three men have been found in the rubble, police said.

**Matt W** · Jan 3, 2006, 08:42 pm

figure8, if you read Z's other posts within the thread, you may figure out it was sarcasm.

figure8 · Jan 3, 2006, 08:48 pm

Surely in a conflict such as this, where the principal enemy is an insurgency fighting using guerilla tactics, gaining and maintaining the trust and support of the civilian population should be of a high priority for occupying military forces and their leaders. I know that "collateral damage" (as heartless a term as it is) is inevitable in any prolonged conflict, but you'd think the forces on the ground would be under instruction to be much more careful when selecting targets and carrying out attacks, especially given their collective track record on civilian casualties.

figure8 · Jan 3, 2006, 08:51 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

figure8, if you read Z's other posts within the thread, you may figure out it was sarcasm.

Oops, what can I say? Unfortunately I've heard not dissimilar comments before which have been made in total seriousness. That's the downside of the net I suppose, you can't always gauge people's true meaning!

Zeebadee · Jan 3, 2006, 09:11 pm

Quote:

Quote by: figure8

Surely in a conflict such as this, where the principal enemy is an insurgency fighting using guerilla tactics, gaining and maintaining the trust and support of the civilian population should be of a high priority for occupying military forces and their leaders. I know that "collateral damage" (as heartless a term as it is) is inevitable in any prolonged conflict, but you'd think the forces on the ground would be under instruction to be much more careful when selecting targets and carrying out attacks, especially given their collective track record on civilian casualties.

There are political considerations that contribute to collateral damage. For PR reasons, Bush needs to keep the GI body count low. Higher casualty rates breed opposition to his war. So, in cases like this, no ground forces are sent in, they simply call in a plane that plants a smart bomb on the house. Iraqi civilians are expendable, nobody's even counting how many have been killed.

Allas · Jan 3, 2006, 11:13 pm

Well, seems to me like they had probable cause to bomb that house. The fact that there were civilian casualties is, ofcourse, regretable, but we simply cannot convey the message that hiding amongst civlians guarrenties safety.

If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs.

Zeebadee · Jan 3, 2006, 11:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Allas

Well, seems to me like they had probable cause to bomb that house. The fact that there were civilian casualties is, ofcourse, regretable, but we simply cannot convey the message that hiding amongst civlians guarrenties safety.

If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs.

Bush claims that the Iraqi's have combat ready troops. Why not just send some of them out to the house and check things out? We don't even know if the guys that were the target of the "coalition" air strike were even in the house. They could have run right on through it to make their getaway. We're not breaking eggs here, we're killing women and kids. Would you characterize any of al qaeda's attacks against us as "regrettable"??

Jan 3, 2006, 01:22 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	No disrespect for the dead, but why is this "breaking news"? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jan 3, 2006, 01:24 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,107	I think you, like the rest of us, have no data to judge this incident on. I view it as a tragedy and am awaiting more info. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jan 3, 2006, 01:33 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,807	The BBC? Hey, we all know those leftist liberal pinko comsymdupes always lie. I'll bet there was really no more than 12 members of the family killed. Just more collateral damage. "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Jan 3, 2006, 02:40 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589	Mr V doesn't want to hear and Tiny somehow thinks that either insurgents were flying US aircraft or that the insurgents can be blamed for everything. I guess it was the inusrgents who lied us into this needless war. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Jan 3, 2006, 08:42 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 7,107	figure8, if you read Z's other posts within the thread, you may figure out it was sarcasm. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jan 3, 2006, 01:23 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,272	I think the insurgents are to blame. What do you think?

Jan 3, 2006, 08:48 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
figure8 Pharaoh Location: Essex/Birmingham, UK Posts: 6	Surely in a conflict such as this, where the principal enemy is an insurgency fighting using guerilla tactics, gaining and maintaining the trust and support of the civilian population should be of a high priority for occupying military forces and their leaders. I know that "collateral damage" (as heartless a term as it is) is inevitable in any prolonged conflict, but you'd think the forces on the ground would be under instruction to be much more careful when selecting targets and carrying out attacks, especially given their collective track record on civilian casualties. One day I shall have an amusing/intellectual/provocative signature quote, but it is not this day. [CENTER]Economic Left/Right: -5.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54[/CENTER]

Jan 3, 2006, 11:13 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Allas Molten Ash Posts: 120	Well, seems to me like they had probable cause to bomb that house. The fact that there were civilian casualties is, ofcourse, regretable, but we simply cannot convey the message that hiding amongst civlians guarrenties safety. If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs.