UN concern at Guantanamo feeding

[Sean]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4569626.stm

There are credible allegations that Guantanamo hunger strikers are being force-fed in a cruel manner, the UN special rapporteur on torture has said. Manfred Nowak's comments came after it emerged that the number of detainees refusing food at the prison camp had more than doubled since 25 December. Some 84 inmates are now refusing food, according to the US military. But a Pentagon official said there was no evidence that they had been treated in an inappropriate way. 'Bleeding' Mr Nowak has not been to Guantanamo, and turned down an invitation to the camp because the US refused to give him unrestricted access to the detainees.

[RobUK]

Aside from the rights and wrongs of these specific allegations, the tragedy of it all is the obvious pounding that America's Image is taking in the court of world opinion.
Majority of the victories in this war with ever shifting/shadowy enemies is won in hearts and minds and to flagrantly disregard this fact is both short sighted and counterproductive.

No place is 100% terror proof from a determined predator. But with public opinion on ones side, they can be less of a target or more importantly, feel secure in the fact that they honestly and justly have nothing to fear.

If we are to hold America up as a beacon of freedom, and accord it all the advantages that accrue therefrom, It is worthy of note therefore, that there are actions too unconscionable for the same country to be engaged in, no matter how justified they may seem at the time,..."To whom more is given More is expected.."

The danger with the way this war on terror is being fought, is that the very values and principles that has made the United States the envy of the free world, run the risk of being gradually eroded, and sadly handing the baddies the Victory in the end. Lets face it winning the war but losing the battle is a hollow victory.

[RickSp]

I think the real tragedy is what America has become. The torture and abuse of prisoners is becoming too well documented to deny and no one seems to care.

[jose]

a Pentagon official said there was no evidence that they had been treated in an inappropriate way.
reminds me of bart simson ¨nobody saw me,it didn´t happen

[xyzer]

The danger with the way this war on terror is being fought, is that the very values and principles that has made the United States the envy of the free world, run the risk of being gradually eroded, and sadly handing the baddies the Victory in the end. Lets face it winning the war but losing the battle is a hollow victory.

This has all the earmarks of a no win situation. How can any country resist the attempts to kill its citizens and disrupt its economy without sacrificing values?
What values are involved in a desparate struggle for survival? What values are sacrificed by incarcerating enemy fighters until the war is over?(I haven't read of any international terrorist organization or avowed terrorist leader offering terms for peace.. have you?) What reason then do we have for desisting in our search for terrorist and detaining those who fight against us and encourage those who would kill us. Have you some inside information that the leaders of this movement are ready to make peace, to stop the bloodshed? Its not us whose values are eroded. We resist slaughter by whatever means we can!

You who criticize our efforts never offer any alternatives! Why? You saw what happened in Africa, Britian, Spain, Indonesia, and elsewhere did you not? What could those nations do to forestall the savagery? Besides abject surrender to a bunch of non uniformed savages who demonstrate brutal murderous tactics even to their fellow citizens what alternatives do you have? To those who slit innocents throats and cut off their heads you offer amnesty and gentle treatment. To those who have taken up arms against you you want to treat them as victims when you catch them?

I do agree with you they shouldn't be held in limbo. If taken in combat trying to kill us and our friends they should be summarily executed not tortured as you claim. These bozos who whimper about mistreatment and go on hunger strikes are lucky to be alive. I wouldn't force feed these miscreants I would let them starve!

This business about winning wars and losing battles is rhetorical nonsense!
Get with it...Have any terrorist leaders offered to quit their murderous conduct? To desist from their attacks? Do any of you really believe if the USA and other western countries left Iraq and quit hunting terroists that their depradations would stop?

[RickSp]

What could be more idiotic than arguing for torture and prisoner abuse? Torture doesn't provide reliable information and abusing prisoners only helps recruit new fighters against us. And once upon a time, America stood for something other than brutality and invading countries that never attacked us. Amazing how dangerous hubris and stupidity can be.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: RickSp What could be more idiotic than arguing for torture and prisoner abuse?

What is Arguing that keeping a person up past their bedtime and not providing them with access to a Qur'an is torture and prisoner abuse, Alex? Although I do find it enlightening that you yourself have enough first hand knowledge of torture to personally know how reliable the information is.

It really is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. They let them NOT eat and there will be stick figures all over TV claiming the guards starved them. So, they should start force feeding the inmates immediately. What really sucks about that though is that all the inmates with legitimate reasons for not eating aren't going to get too because the hate-America crowd can't stop repeating the enemy's propaganda. Frankly, until Al Queda invites the Red Cross into its concentration camps, there should be a complete news black out on anything concerning our military prisions.

[pubmanager]

Quote by: mr perfecto Frankly, until Al Queda invites the Red Cross into its concentration camps, there should be a complete news black out on anything concerning our military prisions.

Where are these concentration camps that you speak of?

I've never heard of them. Please, educate me.

[rmnunez]

While Al Qaeda and associated Islamic fundamentalists are not known to operate concentration camps, they are known for their harsh treatment of captives who often are shown tearfully denouncing their governments before getting decapitated. I would be appropriate to demand ICRC oversee their operations as closely as they do the US' if it is argued the Guantanamo detainees are somehow covered by the Geneva Conventions.

[fushigi]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Frankly, until Al Queda invites the Red Cross into its concentration camps, there should be a complete news black out on anything concerning our military prisions.

Oh, I get it. You're saying that because terrorists act like terrorists, we should too.

Is this one of those "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" things?

[mr.perfecto]

Exactly. Besides being a terrorist gets you so much better press. And it isn't like we have such a great reputation as good people to live up too. So its much better to stop letting the Euros and the leftists emotionally blackmail us.

[Nono]

Quote by: rmnunez I would be appropriate to demand ICRC oversee their operations as closely as they do the US' if it is argued the Guantanamo detainees are somehow covered by the Geneva Conventions.

Bravo for another brilliant suggestion, rummie. Exactly how many of its armoured divisions would you suggest the ICRC send up against Qaida for this purpose, hmm?

[Logjam]

Quote by: fushigi Oh, I get it. You're saying that because terrorists act like terrorists, we should too. Is this one of those "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" things?

We might give it a whorl! Let's take one of the Al Quida leaders that we are holding in GetMo and cut off his head. We could run the footage on the evening news.

The Arab world would raise a huge stink. So would our media and for the most part our people.

But no one seems to care when an American is beheaded by the Terrorists. Why is that anyway? :confused:

[Logjam]

Quote by: Sean http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4569626.stm

That's 84 fewer mouths to feed.

Say, does anyone know how many of the Terrorists held at GETMO have starved themselves to death?

And, whose fault are those deaths anyway?

You want to really torture a person who is trying to commit suicide by starvation? You blow the exhaust from the kitches towards his cell. It's horrible. :rolleyes:

[rmnunez]

Those deaths, Logjam, naturally would be by the will of Allah. And I'd suggest the US could provide the equipment and support the ICRC will need to check on conditions of prisoners of Al Qaeda and sympathisers. The idea of decapitating one or another suspect for public broadcast has merit, though it would cause a stink in the western press and outrage among Muslims in general. I believe the videos relating to the sexual humiliation of captives at Abu Ghraib may have been aimed at mortifying some aspiring mujahedeen. Depending on the orthodoxy of some of these fundamentalists, wearing panties on your head could preclude access to any of those virgins.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Have any terrorist leaders offered to quit their murderous conduct?

Do we know if ANY terrorists have been held at Gitmo? America used to have due process, until our New World, "above the law", dont throw that goddamn Constitution in my face, drug addled ex-con chickenhawk imperialist fascist regime, started running things, their way.

We are the terrorists, as long as we conduct pre-emptive strikes on oil rich countries that dont pose a threat to us.

[rmnunez]

I know SOME terrorists are among those held in Gitmo, in fact about 15 of them have cases wending their way through the pertinent judicial channels. The suspects released after extended stays with inconclusive evidence get a lot more attention though.

[Polish/English]

Americans have always mistreated prisoners, even captured British soldiers were beaten and murdered by Americans in the war of 1812 and the American revolution. The terrorists are only treating captives the way Americans have always treated them. The only way to stop this brutality is for the UN, Chinese or Iranians to invade America and give the territory to the Natives, Mexicans, Canadians and British so the Americans would be minorities in separate countries. This would prevent them torturing people as they would be frightened to rebel without numerical superiority. In other words no more American nation, less brutality.

[Logjam]

Quote by: rmnunez Those deaths, Logjam, naturally would be by the will of Allah. And I'd suggest the US could provide the equipment and support the ICRC will need to check on conditions of prisoners of Al Qaeda and sympathisers. The idea of decapitating one or another suspect for public broadcast has merit, though it would cause a stink in the western press and outrage among Muslims in general. I believe the videos relating to the sexual humiliation of captives at Abu Ghraib may have been aimed at mortifying some aspiring mujahedeen. Depending on the orthodoxy of some of these fundamentalists, wearing panties on your head could preclude access to any of those virgins.

Okay, but you didn't address my question about why no one seems to be upset about Americans being beheaded?

As for me; I'd rather have panties put over my head....even dirty ones; a thousand times before I'd agree to have my head torn off.

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Do we know if ANY terrorists have been held at Gitmo? America used to have due process, until our New World, "above the law", dont throw that goddamn Constitution in my face, drug addled ex-con chickenhawk imperialist fascist regime, started running things, their way. We are the terrorists, as long as we conduct pre-emptive strikes on oil rich countries that dont pose a threat to us.

Most of the people held in GitMo came from the battlefields in Afghanistan. Were they technically terrorists? I don't know. They were definitely enemy combatants. I do know that it's a good place for them to be.

And BTW: If you and I were placed in GitMo for a couple of months we'd have a pretty good time. AFter we got out we'd laugh about it. The only problem that I can think of is that all that the prisoners are allowed to read is the Quran. Or maybe that's the only book that the prisoners want to read?

While I was taking the afternoon sun, and resting between soccer games I'd like to have something interesting to read.