Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency for Williams

[gr8fuldaniel]

ABC News

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday refused to spare the life of Stanley Tookie Williams, the founder of the murderous Crips gang who awaited execution after midnight in a case that set off a debate over the possibility of redemption on death row. Schwarzenegger was unswayed by pleas from Hollywood stars and petitions from more than 50,000 people who said that Williams had made amends during more than two decades in prison by writing a memoir and children's books about the dangers of gangs. "After studying the evidence, searching the history, listening to the arguments and wrestling with the profound consequences, I could find no justification for granting clemency," Schwarzenegger said, less than 12 hours before the execution. "The facts do not justify overturning the jury's verdict or the decisions of the courts in this case."

The republican culture of death has spoken. California will murder, with malice aforethought, a man who may be innocent.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel ABC News The republican culture of death has spoken. California will murder, with malice aforethought, a man who may be innocent.

Oh yeah, it was republicans that put him where he is today. It is unfortunate that the power to make the final decision rests with one that has to include political considerations in making that decision. A man's life shouldn't have to depend on what the polls say will gain or cost the most votes.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Zee Oh yeah, it was republicans that put him where he is today.

I didnt say that. I said it is the republican governor, under pressure from the Reich-wing, who will murder him. Premeditated. With malice aforethought. He was condemned by a predominately white jury. Not a jury of his peers.
Dont be surprised if this is a catylist for riots. The reich is always hoping for a reason to strap on the old tasers and jack boots of freedom.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Wow, okay so I am a big Capitol Punishment avoider, and this just proves my point. A man can change while in prison, and putting him to death is a waste of time and money, plus, the man did change. Schwarzenegger could have turned this example into a very powerful tool to speak out against the death penalty, but instead, it remain as one of the others, in a long, long line of wasted oppertunities.

[xyzer]

Oh yeah, it was republicans that put him where he is today. It is unfortunate that the power to make the final decision rests with one that has to include political considerations in making that decision. A man's life shouldn't have to depend on what the polls say will gain or cost the most votes.

Is not this why we depend on the Justice System to determine guilt or innocence, and if guilty, the sentence? God help us if we let elected officials make these decisions after the fact. I'm sure this is what swayed the governor. This case has been challenged for over a decade in all the allowable courts and for all the allowable reasons, why does a bold act of murder it suddenly become excusable?

I'm for the death penalty in particularlu violent murders committed while committing another felony! This guy fits the bill.

This whole incident was the result of a murderer working the system over the years to stay alive..and never expressing any remorse or apology for his act. All he did was write a few books and pull in some entertaiment and anti death penalty advocates in his less than convincing attempt to stay alive.

[gr8fuldaniel]

This whole incident was the result of a murderer working the system over the years to stay alive..and never expressing any remorse or apology for his act.

Its absurd to express remorse for something you really didnt do. You only assume his guilt. There was no evidence to directly place him at the scene of the crime. His fate was decided by snitches testimony, since there were no eyewitnesses. He especially shouldnt be murdered in cold blood because he didnt have the "luxury" of a qualified attorney. In our current system of justice, only the wealthy are innocent. (Note: In fairness, I am sure there are some exceptions)

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: xyzer God help us if we let elected officials make these decisions after the fact.

Umm... You aren't in favor of governors and presidents commuting sentences and offering pardons? Otherwise known as executive clemency?

That IS the law. So, you think Bush shouldn't pardon any of his perp friends that get sentenced? I figger this will happen about oh, say, January of 2009...

[Rainbow]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I said it is the republican governor, under pressure from the Reich-wing, who will murder him. Premeditated. With malice aforethought. He was condemned by a predominately white jury. Not a jury of his peers. Dont be surprised if this is a catylist for riots. The reich is always hoping for a reason to strap on the old tasers and jack boots of freedom.

A. Schwarzenegger is a murderer and he killed that police officer. Sentence Arnold, instead.
Am I correct ?

What is the matter with shades of jury ?
Does it mean, that :
- "white-jury" frees "white-man"
- "yellow-jury" frees "yellow-man"
- "green-jury" frees "green-man" (UFO ? :-))) )
- ect.
- "black jury" frees "black-man"
It stinks of racism for miles.

For example, there are some "Volcanvo" members who try (at least) to change the U.S. political surface. "The Libertarian" politicial party - regardless of its political achievements - is doing something in that direction.
You have complaints that the U.S. political system does not work the way it should have been ? What have you been doing throughout of your whole life to change it ?

I sense that you hate anything what stands in opposition to your view. Unfortunatelly (for you), the reality is not what you take this world for.

[Roberto]

Schwarzenegger should have commuted his sentence to life without parole instead of giving him the “Hasta la vista, Baby.”

[xyzer]

Its absurd to express remorse for something you really didnt do

Thats the point the Jury who heard the case and the evidence( which you and I don't have access to) believed he did do it! The judges who reviewed the process that got him convicted could find no fault with it! Thats the system!

Isn't there a suspicion that this guy wouldn't admit he did it because he did and thought he could lie his way out of it? I think human nature shows that most people who commit serious crimes don't plead gullty and admit it if they think they can get away with it.

Besides this is a bad guy who formed and led a brutal murderous gang! Now that he is about to pay the supreme penalty for his behavior, he is chickening out! He found it easy to kill and order the killing of others but now when faced with it he is scared...Some hero?

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel ABC News The republican culture of death has spoken. California will murder, with malice aforethought, a man who may be innocent.

The only tragady that will take place tonight is the fact that it took so long for him to be executed.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: rainbow A. Schwarzenegger is a murderer and he killed that police officer. Sentence Arnold, instead. Am I correct ?

What police officer?

Quote by: rainbow What is the matter with shades of jury ?

If Williams had a better attorney, he may have gotten a a jury that is less likely to have had predjudice. Unfortunately, people are very superficial.

Quote by: rainbow I sense that you hate anything what stands in opposition to your view. Unfortunatelly (for you), the reality is not what you take this world for.

I am not the one with an itchy trigger finger. I am saying if there is even a shadow of doubt, give him life without parole, AT THE VERY WORST, but dont murder the guy based on the word of a snitch.

Isn't there a suspicion that this guy wouldn't admit he did it because he did and thought he could lie his way out of it? I think human nature shows that most people who commit serious crimes don't plead gullty and admit it if they think they can get away with it.

Sure, and there even some, like myself, who have pled guilty even though I wasnt, because I was told I would walk. I pled guilty but not without a fight. My P.D. was angry at me for pleading innocent, so was the judge. I held up the court for about 1/2 hour, before I finally caved. My crime? I dumped 2 small tropical fish on the sidewalk. They cited me for littering. I didnt pay the ticket and they threw me in jail. I know this is hardly a serious offense, but I was in jail (in a Bad neighborhood) for a couple of days and was looking at many more days (months?) by pleading innocent.

My Point?
Guilt and Innocence has little to do with justice. I would have been punished more for being honest. As it is, I lied (my atty's advice) and got off with less time.

BTW, it was not littering, fish is a good fertilizer.

What brought this on? A pet store would not refund my money for some fish I bought as a "mated pair". They werent. They called the cops when I wouldnt leave the store without my money.

Do you think Tookies lawyer tried to get him to cop to a lesser plea? Sure he did. Maybe Tookie is more principled than me. Or you.

We only have heresay to base our condemnation on.

Its not OK to murder, right?
So dont kill him.

[bishop]

yeah, the jury convicted him and the judge gave him the death penalty.. schwarzenagger simply upheld that decision.

the fact that this guy wrote childrens' books and renounced gang violence doesn't excuse him for his crimes.. the man shot and killed at least 4 innocent people - a 24/25 year old clerk, and a husband, wife and their child.. while i might be initially inclined to say that he should be spared because he's written some books and renounced gang violence - that does nothing to excuse him for the horrible crimes he committed.

[Technosoul]

Just now the highest court agreed with the Governor and so at midnight he will be put to death.

Jessie Jackson was in front of the prision to protest the termination of his life, but when asked by a reporter Jackson did not know the names of any of the people he had killed,

Meanwhile the gangs sent word to the news media that they do not plan to riot or do anything violent as revenge to the death of their founding father, however local police are on altert for potential riots in black neighborhoods.

And so a midnight the guy who originated drive-by shootings and who shot down some Asians (perhaps members of another gang?) will be meeting his maker.

Preparing to work off what is left of a old karma in another life.

Or just resting in peace to recycle into the cosmic dust of the universe.

Or whatever happens when this journey ends.

It does seem a shame to perform capitol punishment on a full grown man for a crime he did in his youth, especially if he did repent and suffered the proper amount of mental guilt and shame for his missguided actions of the past. But that is how the wheels of justice turn within the legal system for those who can afford active lawyers.

Worse yet is that some people cannot see how wrong their behaviror is until it is too late to start over - before getting caught in the justice system. Or before making that first bad choice in the opening years of their adulthood. By not making the right choice they force others to make a choice about them - life or death. It is the law and the letter of the law is death.

[tinybear]

Here's my question: how come these Hollywood celebrities are pleading for his life? Do they know this guy? Have they visited him in prison regularly or something?

[gr8fuldaniel]

.

but when asked by a reporter Jackson did not know the names of any of the people he had killed

I couldnt tell you the names unless they were written on a poster board. From the NPR Tookie Timeline:

Yen-I Yang, 76, his wife Tsai-Shai Yang, 63, and their visiting daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, 43.

Also from the Timeline:

2002 -- The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upholds Williams' conviction. But in a rare move, the panel urges then-Gov. Gray Davis to consider commuting the death sentence to life behind bars, citing Williams' anti-gang efforts.

[Jack]

California will murder, with malice aforethought, a man who may be innocent.

Listening to several news broadcasts today I noticed even his defenders aren't exactly saying he might be innocent. In fact one said that while he wouldn't die, he would never again be free. He expected him to become a lifer. Their interest was to oppose the death penalty only.
I hadn't heard anything about him possibly being retried and potentially found not guilty.

[Zealot]

Quote by: bishop yeah, the jury convicted him and the judge gave him the death penalty.. schwarzenagger simply upheld that decision. the fact that this guy wrote childrens' books and renounced gang violence doesn't excuse him for his crimes.. the man shot and killed at least 4 innocent people - a 24/25 year old clerk, and a husband, wife and their child.. while i might be initially inclined to say that he should be spared because he's written some books and renounced gang violence - that does nothing to excuse him for the horrible crimes he committed.

Very good Bishop, for once we agree. Tookie is gonna get what he deserves. Our Gov. has us a little worried at first, we were afraid he would bow to the stars. The prison guards are telling us he was a con man.

[dthmstr254]

I have to agree with the people on CNN, "repentance and forgiveness never erase the consequences of your actions." that was a quote from the Tuesday morning coverage of the story.

[Kite]

I actually wanted him to get off, untill they showed a video of the guy. He was built like a freakin, tank. That changed my opinion greatly.