US blocks ICRC access to suspects

[Sean]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4512192.stm

The US has admitted for the first time that it has not given the Red Cross access to all detainees in its custody. The state department's top legal adviser, John Bellinger, made the admission but gave no details about where such prisoners were held. Correspondents say the revelation is only likely to increase suspicion that the CIA has been operating secret prisons out of international oversight. The issue has dogged Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's tour to Europe. Mr Bellinger made the admission in Geneva. He stated that the group International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) had access to "absolutely everybody" at the prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, which holds suspects detained during the US war on terror.

[rmnunez]

Maybe it has something to do with the confusing emblems they keep changing.

[RickSp]

Totalitarian regimes have been notorious for denying the Red Cross access to prisoners. Now the US is doing the same. The hubris of empire. The phrase "liberty and justice of all" rings rather hollow. Just another campaign slogan.

[Osborn F Enready]

This is very distressing for me to hear.

The ICRC is CRITICAL to our own troops as well. Occasionally in cases of abusive commands, or abusive pockets of leadership, troops always have access to the ICRC, and they can be used to reach outside the chain of command with privacy, to civillian representatives.

These new policies about treatment of prisoners is sad, and pretty significant in my opinion.

We must really ask the question now, if who watches the watchers?

[PatrickHenry]

A continuing slide into unaccountability and ultimately, tyranny. If they are not being tortured why does the US have anything to hide? Just like the little statists on this board say: "I don't mind showing my ID, I have nothing to hide."

The clear meaning of this policy is that the US does have something to hide and that hidden thing is disgusting: torture.

[pubmanager]

Bit of an aside:

How aware is the American populus that Europe is going mental over reports that the CIA has "secret interrogation" (torture) prisons in Europe and that they've been secretly abducting suspects and transporting them through European countries without permission, to said secret destinations within European countries that have, let's say, relaxed attitudes to prisoners rights?

This story has been all of the press in a number of countries and the US administration has been rather cagey to say the least.

Has this got to your side of the pond yet?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0...652992,00.html

[bishop]

not really.. the top stories of the day for us were a combination of the snowstorms and the plane that skidded off the runway and killed some kid. i can't believe that you guys over there haven't heard these earth shattering stories... what the hell do they show you all over there? news?

the way that stories being cast over here is by showing all the difficulty rice is having in her p.r. campaign. doesn't seem like she's having any success whatsoever. i read the economist a lot and they're definitely hitting pretty hard - they're also exposing some european skeletons as well. i think it's safe to say that at this point, nobody believes what we say.. in fact, if we say it, chances are good that the opposite is true.

[pubmanager]

I'll see what else I can dig up if anyone's interested?

It's in the papers here every day. Condo Sleazy is scooting round europe getting blasted everywhere she goes.

One could think that Pres. Blush is trying to sabotage her credibility.

[bishop]

or he just doesn't have a clue and doesn't care.. the best act of diplomacy was when he sent karen hughes over to the middle east.. that was one hell of an embarassment.

i think europe can complain till they're blue in the face.. bush won't change his ways.. and, i'm not entirely sure what the consequences of this will be. the countries where we tortured people were in the east, right? (countries with questionable human rights records themselves - and who are always open to a good bribe.)

[pubmanager]

Romania and Poland are under investigation, not exactly bastions of human rights or anti-corruption!

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigat...ory?id=1375123
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005...usint11995.htm

Nobody is particularly happy at the idea that the CIA used their airports for "rendition" flights either.

The Human rights watch site has a fair bit of info on mis-treatment of prisoners

http://www.hrw.org/doc/?t=usai_torture

[jose]

“We don't kick the [expletive] out of them. We send them to other countries so they can kick the [expletive] out of them.” An official who had supervised the capture and transfer of accused terrorists said “If you don’t violate someone’s human rights some of the time, you probably aren’t doing your job…I don’t think we want to be promoting a view of zero tolerance on this.” http://hrw.org/reports/2004/usa0604/2.htm

[Nono]

Quote by: rmnunez Maybe it has something to do with the confusing emblems they keep changing.

Shame on you rummie for this gratuitously idiotic remark, which shows -- among other things -- that you have nothing of value to say. What could you say? Your line throughout in these discussions has been that the US has somehow been defying gravity and obeying the law here. Since you're so much into international law, you'll know the importance of customary rules, which the US has repeatedly flouted (along with, often enough, the letter).

As for the RC emblem, rum, how bout you tell us why a new one had to be created? (Not changed, as you erroneously state.) Hell, I'll save you the trouble. It was because the Untied States never shut up about the fact that the Israeli national society wasn't being officially recognized, which it couldn't possibly be legally since it was using an emblem not recognized by international law. The US carped, the US threatened, the US came very close to accusing the ICRC of anti-Semitism God-help-us-all.

Now, finally, after decades of work by the ICRC, a new emblem has been created (and the Arabs royally pissed off in the process). And what do you have to say about it, rum? The childish remark quoted above. :rolleyes:

[jose]

WASHINGTON, Dec. 9 - The United States said Friday that it would continue to deny the International Committee of the Red Cross access to "a very small, limited number" of prisoners who are held in secret around the world, saying they are terrorists being kept incommunicado for reasons of national security and are not guaranteed any rights under the Geneva Conventions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/po.../10detain.html
were breaking international law, but only just a teeny weeny bit :confused:
"We're going the extra mile here," Mr. Ereli said, by allowing the Red Cross access to Al Qaeda suspects and others held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in Afghanistan. The Red Cross also has access to prisoners held in Iraq.

Aside from those detainees, about two or three dozen terrorism suspects, including a handful of top Al Qaeda operatives, are said by current and former intelligence officials to be held in secret locations.
out of sight out of, oh never mind