Iran's President calls for Erradication of Israel

[Ghumanto]

Quote by: leftcider Hilarious. So tiny Israel is somehow stopping the Muslim world from economically prospering, and if it were eliminated, economic prosperity would sweep the Middle East through the magic of a non-interest system?

Come On !
Israel is just a base for the Jewish camp! They have the economy - can't you see ?

The Muslim world is not waiting for Israel's destruction - they want to establish a new economic system . Any new economic system will face toughest resistance as the Communists did faced.

[Ghumanto]

Quote by: shield772 It couldn't have been put anywhere else because then it wouldn't be Isreal. That is where Isreal has always been. We did not establish it we re-established it. We put the jews back where they came from.

So if that's the way , then the Indians should throw all white and black americans out of USA and Canada !
So, only a few Aborigins will stay in Australia !
Huh !

[Athena]

Quote by: IndieC Tell me... Do people actually look into history for their opinions to form, or do they simply believe the propaganda that is so clearly wrong? Israel was not set up as a bridge between Christianity and Islam. You missed out the vital point. Jews. The only reason Israel was created was because we didn't know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were there, and we couldn't not take care of them because of the holocaust. Plus, they were asking for a Jewish nation, so we gave one to them. Get your facts right before posting things like that!! More importantly, read books and learn the truth about the issue.

I appreciate your interest in history, but believe your facts are wrong. The British used Jews to secure the Suez Cannel when it was a colonel power. They pursauded Arabs to revolt against Turkish rule and drive them out of Arab territory, promising the Arabs self rule, than it promised some of this promised land to the French and gave what is now Israel to Rothchild, in exchange for the money to support the Arab war against Turks.

Following the second world war, the US got involved to stop the spread of communism. The USSR was the first to recognize Israel and the US didn't want Israel to leans towards the USSR, so the US began buying Israel off with annual foriegn aid and military assistance. Since then the only president to halt the spread of Israel was Eisenhower who cut funding to Israel to get Israel to back off Eygpt.

Hum, I wonder if there is a good book explaining all these mid east involvements in one book? The US public has largely been remained uninformed of these political moves. Until recently, when I told people, the US supply of oil was running out, people would assure me the US had all the oil it needs. In general, citizens of the US have ignored finite and economic reality, and therefore the political moves of the US. Interesting, now that we are gaining an interest in such things. Now we will see if self governing people are really capable of self government, or well humans always remain sheep dependent on their leaders? If national leaders can be knowledgeable of world and economic affairs, can the citizens also be knowledgeable? Will they care enough to be informed?

[Athena]

Quote by: Ghumanto Come On ! Israel is just a base for the Jewish camp! They have the economy - can't you see ? The Muslim world is not waiting for Israel's destruction - they want to establish a new economic system . Any new economic system will face toughest resistance as the Communists did faced.

What is new about Muslem economics? I am not well informed, but do understand at one time Christians were as against usury as Muslems. That is how the Jews gained such economic power. This handling of money was thought dirty and Jews were denied other opportunities, so they got stuck with money handling. This is a religious moral issue as much as anything else. We will see, just how smart (moral) the US handling of money is in the next few years. I think 911 was announcing an economic crisis. I think this subject is worthy of its own thread.

[Athena]

Quote by: Nono To understand what a neocon is, you first have to grasp what a conservative is (i.e. someone who wishes to conserve what has already been achieved). See Jeffords. As I see it, the neocons are a movement in right-wing US circles that has been slowly slithering into government circles since the Ford administration and has come into its own with Boy George's accession to power. 1) They believe in US global supremacy à la post-WWII and are prepared to warp any principle to make things that way. 2) They believe in the global imposition of unfettered capitalism (what I would actually more acurrately refer to as "neo-liberalism") manifested as deregulation, as privatization of resources and services, as drastically reduced social services, and as dismissal of the value of community, civil society, and the public -- public as in public land or public goods. They are personified by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Co. You can see why they are antithetical to traditional conservatives, who sadly have been totally buffaloed in US politics these past four years. Shame!

I agree with you, but would say the neocons made significant gains during the Eisenhower administration. Don't you think this is why he warned of the military/industrial complex? Important connections between government, research and media were made during the Eisenhower administration. And most significantly is the 1958 National Defense Education Act I keep talking about. This Act prepared youth for the New World Order, which is not the family ordered democracy we defended in two world wars. It is exactly the New World Order of Germany.

The seeds for this began during the first World War, when Industry, National Defense and Education sat on the same board for the first time. There was an education for the American ideal and an education for the New World Order German ideal. This difference is clearly explained in the 1899 book, "TALKS TO TEACHERS ON PSYCHOLOGY: AND TO STUDENTS ON SOME OF LIFE'S IDEALS" by William James. People argued for the NWO education as early as 1917.

Yes, Israel was pivitol to NWO abitions, and yes, now control of Iraq and Afghanstan is pivitol to world domination. He who controls oil, controls the world. At least for the next few decades. That control is essential to our national defense. Regardless of how well we develop alternative energy supplies. We can not possibly wage war around the world without oil. If the US can not militarily dominate the world, the US can not economically dominate the world either. The US has consumed its natural resources which are the foundation of its wealth, and must now important vitally important resources, which is draining the US of its wealth Without military might, the US becomes as economically vulnerable as a third world country. Mineral wealth is essential to the wealth of industrial nations. Check your coins. There is no longer valuable metals in US coins, because the US no longer has a wealth of valuable metals in its soil.

[shield772]

Quote by: Ghumanto So if that's the way , then the Indians should throw all white and black americans out of USA and Canada ! So, only a few Aborigins will stay in Australia ! Huh !

OK, I will agree with that, I have American Indian blood, and enough to be recognized by the nations. Goodbye pale faces.

[leftcider]

Quote by: Boetie Bush Jr by giving the middle east the finger signaled that he is all for the racial policy of Zionism to eradicate the Arabians via the same method Hitler used to eradicate the Jews.

The argument that the Israel-Palestine conflict is just like the Holocaust is pathetic. Israel has commited wrongs in Palestine, but they nowhere approach the level of genocide. Israel is not trying to wipe out all the Palestinians. Palestinian terrorist groups are attacking Israel and killing civilians, another gaping hole in this flawed analogy.

If Israel was trying to commit genocide, they would not have left Gaza, and if Bush was as rabidly pro-Zionist as some claim, he would not have encouraged them to do so.

[Mia]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Shouldn't you be commenting on what you posted? In any case, this is just the same stuff the Arabs have beenn saying for over 50 years. I have a sneaking suspicion the administration is even commenting on it is to see if they can use it as an excuse to invade Iran next.

Yes, apparently we must tear up the entire Middle East for Israel.

I'm getting close to wanting it eradicated myself so we can quit going to war over it, and if I were an Arab, living in a country targeted by the US because of it, I'm sure I'd feel as they do.

It's only natural to hate that which oppresses you or causes war to be made against you!

Why does the world have to revolve around that one little country?

Pull them back to th UN division, build a moat, big walls, whatever, fortify them, and let the rest of the world go on. Of course Palistine would have to be rebuilt, but if it was done fairly the Arabs would calm down and everyone could co-exist.

[Trotsky]

Quote by: Mia Yes, apparently we must tear up the entire Middle East for Israel. I'm getting close to wanting it eradicated myself so we can quit going to war over it, and if I were an Arab, living in a country targeted by the US because of it, I'm sure I'd feel as they do. It's only natural to hate that which oppresses you or causes war to be made against you! Why does the world have to revolve around that one little country? Pull them back to th UN division, build a moat, big walls, whatever, fortify them, and let the rest of the world go on. Of course Palistine would have to be rebuilt, but if it was done fairly the Arabs would calm down and everyone could co-exist.

The Arabs would calm down??? What are you on? They would see it as a sign of weakness and twats like the Iranian president would call for whatever it is they call for. Then to cap it all off, you'd have them boyos with the skull caps and the ringletts up in arms becasue they don't have control over the greater Israel promised to them by God or whatever it is they believe.
Take their toys away form all of them, no more weapons, no more aid, no talking. If both sides want to behave like adults, well and good, we in the international community should engage with them and give them all the assistance neede, but if they contiue with the same old crap that's been happening since 1945, they should be marginalised out of the international community.

[Nono]

Nobody out there will ever calm down.

Here's an idea, though: Give the Palestinians what's now Israeli territory (well, much of it). And give the Israelis the West Bank. Their crazies are always going on about how God gave it to them -- let 'em have it. And the rest of their territory to which they have no direct biblical claim would go by default to the Palestinians.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Mia Yes, apparently we must tear up the entire Middle East for Israel. I'm getting close to wanting it eradicated myself so we can quit going to war over it, and if I were an Arab, living in a country targeted by the US because of it, I'm sure I'd feel as they do.

I'm not quite to the point of wanting it eradicated, but I do want them to get real about a few things. If not, then they are on their own and if the entire Arab world sees their chance and takes them over then that's the way it is. A little less belligerancy toward their neighbors and we might help them out, but if they want to suck us into another world war then all bets are off.
And if they want to SPY on us all bets are off too.

Why does the world have to revolve around that one little country?

I never could figure that one out. It was a huge mistake to put them where they are in the first place, regardless of what ancient history tells them, and the experiment has run its course.

[shield772]

The whole Arab world has tried repeatedly to destroy them, well for that matter the whole world at some time or another was against them, but yet there they are still standing, they are protected by God, they are his chosen people.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shield772 they are protected by God, they are his chosen people.

How did that work out in 1944?

[Nono]

Yes, shield, this is a debate board. You defeat the purpose if you lean back and tell us "This is how it is. Why? Oh, because God says so."

So, to get back to Pat's question: Do you think the people being butchered at Treblinka, etc. would have seen things your way?

[Ghumanto]

Quote by: Athena What is new about Muslem economics? I am not well informed, but do understand at one time Christians were as against usury as Muslems. That is how the Jews gained such economic power. This handling of money was thought dirty and Jews were denied other opportunities, so they got stuck with money handling. This is a religious moral issue as much as anything else. We will see, just how smart (moral) the US handling of money is in the next few years. I think 911 was announcing an economic crisis. I think this subject is worthy of its own thread.

I think you should try to read a bit about the relegion to get a clear picture.
Islam doesnot forbidden anything so strictly as it did for taking interest . You can see a lot of Islamic banking in Muslim countries which is based on profit sharing i/o interest. Even Standard Chartered Bank is openeing branches for Islamic banking.

What Ahmadinejad is saying today in harsh way , Mahathir told it some years back in a different way. Muslim's has deep rooted beilef that they are to establish the rule of God ( which off course has been misinterpreted by every group ). Thus Jews became number 1 obstacle to Muslim because of the totally different economic system they preach.

Jihad - means fight for justice. The Prophet asked to start Jihad from home ( to start from your ownself ) . Also, the God asks Muslims to restrain from war even when they are surrounded by the enemies . Muslims are to try all other methods including dialogue to avert any war.
But when the enemy starts killing children and women - God asks Muslims to fight like anything and diminish the enemies to nothing.
So, the Jihad by the Palestinians or Iraqis can be accepted because they have the same situation where Jihad is applicable.
But , it doesn't make sense to attack madrid trains or London subways ! Because Islam doesn't support killing innocent person ( the worst crime is killing as per Islam ).

Before I conclude, I want to express that -
- todays world seemed to pre-occupied with the idea that Islam is a relegion of fanatics and all Muslims are terrorists.
- That Israel has the right to exist because of Biblical writings !
- That Palestinians ( who are of same land as of Jews , only the relegion is different ) has no right to have their own homeland !
- That India can make Nukes but Iran can not . Israel has Nukes - nobody talks about it as if it is a taboo !
- US ( with the help of the corrupt Arab Kings ) instigated Saddam to attack Iran - that was no crime ! Saddam killed many Iranian school children using chemical bombs - US, UK and UN were sleeping as if nothing happened !
- So far no justice done for the massacar in Sabra and Shatila . Israeli PM Sharon was behind this massacar - yet to crime !
- Chechnya , Kashmir ..............

There are many issues like the above that makes Muslims angry . Some clever guys exploit these angry youhts sentiment and make them terrorists.

So, unless the root cause of the problem is solved - he world will see many many years of war - that's for sure.

[Mia]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I'm not quite to the point of wanting it eradicated, but I do want them to get real about a few things. If not, then they are on their own and if the entire Arab world sees their chance and takes them over then that's the way it is. A little less belligerancy toward their neighbors and we might help them out, but if they want to suck us into another world war then all bets are off. And if they want to SPY on us all bets are off too. I never could figure that one out. It was a huge mistake to put them where they are in the first place, regardless of what ancient history tells them, and the experiment has run its course.

Agreed, except we already have begun a world war over them. Look how many countries we are now targeting already - some people on a Syrian Forum suggested that some Christian Zionists and fundamentalists want to bring about Armegeddon.

I didn't believe it until I researched it, but there are a massive number of people who are, and Bush is associated with their beliefs.

They want Israel to spark a world war, and are setting about making so right now.

[leftcider]

Quote by: Mia I'm getting close to wanting it eradicated myself so we can quit going to war over it, and if I were an Arab, living in a country targeted by the US because of it, I'm sure I'd feel as they do. It's only natural to hate that which oppresses you or causes war to be made against you!

Israel does nothing harmful towards the vast majority of Arab nations that want to wipe them out. Indeed, it was the Arab nations that invaded Israel multiple times in an attempt to eradicate.

The hatred of most Arab regimes directed against Israel is first of all a diversion against the economic and social failures of the Arab regimes: blame it all on Israel, and the authoritarian regimesneed not be responsible. It's also a matter of pride and anger at being defeated by Israel in 3 wars and intolerance towards a non-Muslim nation.

Yes, Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and allow for the creation of a Palestinian state, but Islamic countries have very little moral underpinning in their blind hatred.

[leftcider]

Quote by: Ghumanto Muslim's has deep rooted beilef that they are to establish the rule of God ( which off course has been misinterpreted by every group ). Thus Jews became number 1 obstacle to Muslim because of the totally different economic system they preach.

Can you explain what these differences actually are?

The concept of "Tikkun olam" or "World repair" is strong in Judaism. It says that the individual has a responsibility to repair the damage in the world. Judaism also places a high value on charity (Tzedakah). These policies are taken seriously, and, for example, Jewish voters in the US
tend to be more economically socialistic than their Christian counterparts.

[Nono]

Quote by: leftcider Israel does nothing harmful towards the vast majority of Arab nations that want to wipe them out. Indeed, it was the Arab nations that invaded Israel multiple times in an attempt to eradicate. The hatred of most Arab regimes directed against Israel is first of all a diversion against the economic and social failures of the Arab regimes: blame it all on Israel, and the authoritarian regimesneed not be responsible. It's also a matter of pride and anger at being defeated by Israel in 3 wars and intolerance towards a non-Muslim nation. Yes, Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and allow for the creation of a Palestinian state, but Islamic countries have very little moral underpinning in their blind hatred.

A great deal of truth here. Ask a whole generation of Palestinian refugees kept cooped up in camps how much true concern for their welfare has ever been shown by their Arab bretheren.

Here's another question: If all these Arab regimes are really so opposed to oppression, why never a peep about Darfur, a full-scale genocide going on right next door?
So give us a break.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Mia Agreed, except we already have begun a world war over them. Look how many countries we are now targeting already - some people on a Syrian Forum suggested that some Christian Zionists and fundamentalists want to bring about Armegeddon. I didn't believe it until I researched it, but there are a massive number of people who are, and Bush is associated with their beliefs. They want Israel to spark a world war, and are setting about making so right now.

Bush has always worried me. Not because of his politics and actually not so much for his actions to date but what his actions very well COULD be, or as you suggest, are likely to be. I believe Mr. Bush to be an intellectually limited man, and that along with religious zealotry coupled with almost unlimited power is a terrifying combination.