Iran's President calls for Erradication of Israel

[Nono]

Quote by: Indie Do people actually look into history for their opinions to form ... ? Israel was not set up as a bridge between Christianity and Islam. You missed out the vital point. Jews. The only reason Israel was created was because we didn't know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were there, and we couldn't not take care of them because of the holocaust. (...) Get your facts right before posting things like that!!

Jeez, Indie, for somebody who carps about historical ignorance, you should brush up on yours. Zionism was an established movement before Hitler was out of diapers, and WWII was preceded by a half century of Jewish immigration in Palestine. "We" didn't know what to do with "them"? Honestly...

Quote by: Milt B We made room for the Mormons, and the Indians to have self rule within our borders, why not make room for the Jews as well?

For starters the Jews have been scapegoated for many many centuries. Kinda hard to "make room" for your favourite whipping boy.
As for the Mormons, we "made room" for them, i.e. they took it form Indians. As for the Indians, ask an Indian whether "room" has been "made" for him.

[rcne]

From the BBC:Tens of thousands of Iranians took part in the rally in Tehran which Iran organises every year on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan to show solidarity with the Palestinian struggle. Shouting "Death to Israel, death to the Zionists", the protesters dragged Israeli flags along the ground and then set them on fire. but.... Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments," chief negotiator Saeb Erekat

Palestinians are in the process of getting a homeland. Consequently most people no longer use Palestine as an excuse for their anti-semitism. Maybe the new president of Iran should update his "Talking Points". It plays well internally, but internationally it seems a little lame.

[Nono]

Quote by: rcne Palestinians are in the process of getting a homeland.

Ask Palestinians whether they agree with your statement. You seem rosily optimistic. They don't seem to be.

As for it playing well internally in Iran, I doubt even that is true. Iranians aren't fools, and are increasingly well informed about what is really going on the world. A guy in Ahmadinejad's position can snap his fingers and have "tens of thousands of Iranians" chanting practically anything in no time. That's just the system, and everybody nows it.

I'll tell you what really will get popular sentiment on his side, though, and that's some stupid move by Boy George to deprive Iran of the nukes it feels are its due.

[rmnunez]

Palestinians enjoy far more attention and importance in global affairs than their small number and economic worth merits. It is in their interest to remain dissatisfied and pesimisitic about their prospects.

[Please]

Quote by: IndieC Get your facts right before posting things like that!! More importantly, read books and learn the truth about the issue.

I think you should do what you preach "before posting things like that" mate. This is not the way to debate.

[rmnunez]

Peaceloving Iranians led by some finger-snapper?

Iran's hardline president has defended his call for Israel to be "wiped off the map" despite an escalating international outcry, as tens of thousands of Iranians rallied to condemn the Jewish state. "They are free to talk but their words do not have any validity. It is natural that if a word is right and just it will provoke a reaction," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told the official IRNA news agency on Friday. The straight-talking ultra-conservative, who won a shock election victory in June, went on to criticise "international Zionism and the expansionist policies of the world arrogance" -terminology usually used to refer to the United States and Israel. "They are cheeky humans, and they think that the entire world should obey them. They destroy Palestinian families and expect nobody to object to them." He was speaking as Iran staged its annual anti-Israeli hate fest and amid international condemnation of a speech he gave on Wednesday to a conference entitled "The World without Zionism". Large numbers of regime loyalists took to the streets of Tehran for "Jerusalem Day" -an event heavy on bloodthirsty slogans, flag burning and praise for suicide bombers but also held in a carnival-style atmosphere. The Palestinian fight against Israel is one of the central dogmas of the Islamic regime in Iran, and banners declaring "Israel must be wiped off the map" were seen at Friday's rally. But Ahmadinejad's fiery speech was the first time in years that such a high-ranking official had openly demanded Israel's destruction. http://sg.news.yahoo.com/051028/1/3w1fw.html

It should be noted that statements by the head of state are deemed official government policy under international law.

[Nono]

Quote by: rmnunez Palestinians enjoy far more attention and importance in global affairs than their small number and economic worth merits. It is in their interest to remain dissatisfied and pesimisitic about their prospects.

I agree with you that they get attention and sympathy disporoprtionate to their numbers and plight. (But would you want to live in Gaza, rummie? You bet you wouldn't.) So what's new? Americans think they set some sort of record in victimhood when less than 3,000 of them were killed on 911. That's politics.

And you think humanitarian concern should flow along lines of "economic worth", do you?
Curiouser and curiouser.

[leftcider]

The professed sympathy for the Palestinians by the Iranian regime is a thin smokescreen for justifying violent anti-Semitism and anti-Israelism. There is no doubt that Iran and other Arab regimes don't give a shit about the Palestinians, and many of them have treated the Palestinians worse than Israel has. When the Arab regimes controlled parts of Palestine between the 48 and 67 wars, they never gave them independence or resettlement rights. Instead, the PLO was expelled from Jordan. Israel serves as a convenient scapegoat to deflect criticism away from their own failing governance. The irony of the Iranian rhetoric saying that "all we want is completely free and fair elections in Palestine" while all Iranian candidates must be approved by a clerical council is overwhelming. Inter-Arab atrocities, such as Syria massacaring over 10,000 of their own people in 1982 (far more than Infitada deaths) get little play compared to Israel's actions in Palestine. Israel is doing some unjustified things in Palestine and needs to stop, but most of the Arab regimes are far worse.

What the Arab regimes are truly angered by is the existence of a sucessful non-Muslim state in their midst. If a comparable situation was occuring in the Israel-Palestine region among two Muslim countries, they would not utter a word in support of their "Palestinian brothers". Far worse atrocities have drawn nothing but silence from them, as long as it has been Arabs killing Arabs.

It is the fault of the Iranian regime alone that this rhetoric is being made, not Israel's or the West's. There is never any justification for calling for the genocide that they would commit if they had the capability too. Make no apologies for them.

As to Zionism, the refugees created by Nazi Germany played a part in Israel's inception, but Zionism goes back much farther. Zionism has existed well back into the early 19th century, much of it stemming from the Dreyfuss affair, in which a French Jewish general was falsely accused and convicted of spying for Germany on fabricated anti-Semetic grounds. Jews realized then that even in the most integrated, politically equitable nation of France there would be persecution, and a Jewish state was needed to avoid this. Palestine, which contained a Jewish population and was never independent until the UN partition, began to receive Jewish immigration far before the post-WW2 era. The land of Israel and its promise as a "holy land" is very prevalent in Jewish prayer and tradition.

Neither was Israel a construction of American, British and French interests as other posters have suggested. Israel had strong Soviet support when it was established, and had widespread support outside of the Middle East. The argument that it was established as a tool of Western imperialism against the Arabs rings hollow in light of this support from the non-Western USSR superpower.

[leftcider]

Quote by: Ghumanto This could destroy the monopoly of Jews on the world wealth and so they are vehemently opposed to it. Israel was created to serve this cause . If there was no such economic reasons - Israel could have been created in Africa ( to suck the treasure in the mines ) or in Brazil ...........anywhere except where it is now .

Hilarious. So tiny Israel is somehow stopping the Muslim world from economically prospering, and if it were eliminated, economic prosperity would sweep the Middle East through the magic of a non-interest system?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Nono For starters the Jews have been scapegoated for many many centuries. Kinda hard to "make room" for your favourite whipping boy. As for the Mormons, we "made room" for them, i.e. they took it form Indians. As for the Indians, ask an Indian whether "room" has been "made" for him.

The sad fact is that our government only became benevolent after the criminal, and unethical acts had been commited by the preceeding generations.


There was a legitimate attempt made (by some, and not honored by all) to give the Native Americans some restitution for the wrongs done to them. This is a unimaginably slow process which continues to this day, with GW Bush just recoignizing the sovereignty of the Indian Nation just this year. (remember all the fun we had with his sovereignty speech )


I am wagering that by the post WW II years enough people were wise enough to understand that the US could have made room for Jews to have a homeland within our borders to avert the type of situation we now have with international relations.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I see the creation of Isreal as a permenent festering wound on international relations, and a major stumbling block to any real attainable peace with the opposing ideaologies.

[Nono]

Quote by: Milton I am wagering that by the post WW II years enough people were wise enough to understand that the US could have made room for Jews to have a homeland within our borders to avert the type of situation we now have with international relations.

I'm not at all sure that's true. One forgets what an anti-Semitic place the US still was in the 1930s. Somehow I doubt that WWII had much of an impact on that. There would have been plenty of opposition.

As for averting the present situation, who could have been expected to foresee it? In those days the Arabs simply didn't count.

[shield772]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Shouldn't you be commenting on what you posted? In any case, this is just the same stuff the Arabs have beenn saying for over 50 years. I have a sneaking suspicion the administration is even commenting on it is to see if they can use it as an excuse to invade Iran next.

Well they did invade us once.

[shield772]

Quote by: Please In a gathering of three thousand young people debating a "world without Zionism" Iran's president must have had little choice but to say what he said. It is much more surprising to note that the USA is acting as if this statement were revealing something new in the Middle East. At this point I agree with Scribbler1. May I also introduce another view on this hatred of Israel that the president of Iran has so bluntly put forward : Israel was supposed to be a bridge between Christianity and Islam, between western business interests and the Middle Eastern riches and oil. Israel was supposed to establish good relations in the area so that the West could enjoy exploiting the locals for many happy years to come. What a bad plan it proved to be. What a failure Israel is. And we are all paying the price of this arrogance.

What? You know Isreal is and always has been a Jewish nation right? They could in no way be a bridge. Islam has hated Isreal since the virtual beginning of time. Suggested reading The Bible.

[shield772]

Quote by: IndieC Tell me... Do people actually look into history for their opinions to form, or do they simply believe the propaganda that is so clearly wrong? Israel was not set up as a bridge between Christianity and Islam. You missed out the vital point. Jews. The only reason Israel was created was because we didn't know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were there, and we couldn't not take care of them because of the holocaust. Plus, they were asking for a Jewish nation, so we gave one to them. Get your facts right before posting things like that!! More importantly, read books and learn the truth about the issue.

Well actually Isreal has been a nation since the beginning of time, and we only made it a political reality with our political and military influence.

[shield772]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Actually, you are correct. I misread the "bridge to Islam" part of that post. However, they do make a significant point about the concept of installing a government to rule over others with your particular national interests in mind. Why did the US, British, French, and the UN all decide that the Jews had to be installed in the particular geographic location? We made room for the Mormons, and the Indians to have self rule within our borders, why not make room for the Jews as well? We could have put them out in Utah next to the Mormons.

Because it was theirs long before we or anyone else or other nations existed.

[shield772]

Quote by: Ghumanto The basic problem between Jews and Muslims are " the totally different economic system ". While Jews have the current interest based system - Muslims hate Interest and preaches an interest free system. The holy book of Islam simply mentions Christians as " misguided " but Jews as the force to be careful of . If there is a super state ( as all the great leaders of Muslims countries dream ) - then the world could see that there are other ways of economic system also. This could destroy the monopoly of Jews on the world wealth and so they are vehemently opposed to it. Israel was created to serve this cause . If there was no such economic reasons - Israel could have been created in Africa ( to suck the treasure in the mines ) or in Brazil ...........anywhere except where it is now .

It couldn't have been put anywhere else because then it wouldn't be Isreal. That is where Isreal has always been. We did not establish it we re-established it. We put the jews back where they came from.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: shield772 Well they did invade us once.

Are you saying the Arabs invaded the United States? When?

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: CheckMate BRAVE WORDS FOR COUNTRY WITH NOTHING it seems someone is where flys don't talk, very brave

My CheckMate to English dictionary is malfunctioning. Can you please clarify what you just said? :confused:

[shield772]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Are you saying the Arabs invaded the United States? When?

When Iran took our embassy in the late 1970's, International Law recognizes embassies as foreign soil.

[RickSp]

Quote by: shield772 What? You know Isreal is and always has been a Jewish nation right?

I see you are not letting history get in the way of your ideology.