George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

[Nono]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,38...110878,00.html

Quote by: The Guardian George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month. Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Read the rest here.

Didn't we see something like this in The Blues Brothers?
And didn't they end up in jail?

[Sean]

Bush is not that foolish in my opinion; wars, policies, etc are all generally calculated (i.e. what will get good press, support, etc). If anything his comments were just more attempts to pander to his new evangelical/catholic base. That's politics for ya.

oh and it was denied: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4317498.stm

Follow the damn format of this forum nono. I am correcting your posts here all the time lol. TITLE LINK QUOTE OPINION

[RickSp]

A Bush spokesman denies that he made the statement, but it is consistent with statements made by Bush is several other venues. Just before invading Iraq he invoked God as a justification for the war saying:

One of the things we love in America is freedom. If I may, I'd like to remind you what I said at the State of the Union: liberty is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to each and every person. And that's what I believe. I believe that when we see totalitarianism, that we must deal with it.

President George Bush Discusses Iraq in National Press Conference

[Sean]

hmm..

I am not a big Bush fan but I suggest you guys do a little research into how competitive and tactful he was during the 2002 mid-term elections. Like I said, I think he is calculating (or someone is with him). He did not go to Iraq because God told him to. This allegation (if true) is just Bush pandering to the religious base if I were to call it. We went there for a variety of reasons.

Speaking of that did anyone read/listen to his speech yesterday? He's an awful speaker but someone wrote a good one for him yesterday (even if you disagree with him).

[tinybear]

Actually folks, here's the real deal about GWB's speeches:

http://www.wimp.com/presidential/

[Nono]

Quote by: Sean He did not go to Iraq because God told him to.

You know that and we know that -- but does he know that? Self-delusion is rampant in this administration (see Iraq, precisely). I'm sure Torquemada also had his little chats with the Almighty.

As for the source, well who knows? We'll just have to wait 50-odd years until the archives release that part of Dubbya's presidential papers. By then they may be starting to get a grip on the insurgency, at least in suburban Baghdad. :)

[Osborn F Enready]

Sean said:
He did not go to Iraq because God told him to. This allegation (if true) is just Bush pandering to the religious base if I were to call it. We went there for a variety of reasons.

I say:
Regardless of what the reasons we went were, the words came from HIS mouth supposedly. If they did in fact come from his mouth, he should be REMOVED FROM OFFICE IMMEDIATELY.

Politicians are supposed to be held to a level of trust, and accountability.

A politician cannot claim that he tells the truth when it fits, and then when it doesn't fit, call it pandering. If he says it, he better mean it, or not say a damn thing.

He can't talk out of both sides of his mouth, and expect ANYONE to take him seriously, and as it turns out, he appears to be another religious extremist who can't tell the supernatural myth from the physical reality. A sign of insanity.

[Trotsky]

Say it with me people!!

Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.............Ash-hadu alla ilaha illallah, Ash-hadu alla ilaha illallah,.........Ash-hadu anna Muhammadar Rasulullah, Ash-hadu anna Muhammadar Rasulullah......Hayya alassalah, Hayya alassalah .............................................................

Next he'll be setting up little radicle churches all over the place, training young kids to go blow themselves and innocent people up.

Duh George :rolleyes:

[Nono]

Quote by: Trots Say it with me people!!

Sorry, can't pronounce it right. Can you?

[Trotsky]

Quote by: Nono Sorry, can't pronounce it right. Can you?

Yep, lived next to a mosque for a while in Reading, I can recite it almost word for word.

[Nono]

The vilest deeds like poison weeds
Bloom well in prison-air:
It is only what is good in Man
That wastes and withers there:
Pale Anguish keeps the heavy gate,
And the Warder is Despair

-- Oscar Wilde

[Boetie]

Bush Jr has always been mentally out of it. He is like that 1950 photo of the young boy wearing a cowboy outfit holding a toy gun aka wearing his pilot suit. When he did that pilot suit stunt is was the most ridiculous moment of human history. I really felt bad for the guy and at the same time I was laughing at what a clown he is. Isn't it true that if people say they talk to God they are directed to see a shrink?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Regardless of what the reasons we went were, the words came from HIS mouth supposedly. If they did in fact come from his mouth, he should be REMOVED FROM OFFICE IMMEDIATELY. Politicians are supposed to be held to a level of trust, and accountability. A politician cannot claim that he tells the truth when it fits, and then when it doesn't fit, call it pandering. If he says it, he better mean it, or not say a damn thing. He can't talk out of both sides of his mouth, and expect ANYONE to take him seriously, and as it turns out, he appears to be another religious extremist who can't tell the supernatural myth from the physical reality. A sign of insanity.

The simple fact is that a man cannot have allegiance to the constitution first if he is a religios man. The oath of office requires ones first allegiance to country, not God.


If somebodies allegience to God always comes first, can they really be considered fit for office?


This is one of the more disturbing conundrums that people don't seem comfortable discussing, and a topic I think worthy of consideration.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Sean He did not go to Iraq because God told him to. This allegation (if true) is just Bush pandering to the religious base if I were to call it.

And you know this how? The official justifications - WMD and terrorist ties were extremely weak ever before the war. Why is unlikely that God told him to go to war. It has been widely reported that he told a group of ministers that God told him to run for the presidency. If he is getting messages from on high, why not war?

Your suggestion that Bush was just pandering to his religious base would make more sense if he hadn't made the alleged statements to a Palestinian delegation at a summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

If he was pandering to his base, he chose a odd audience.

[Sean]

Rick, it is what he does best. If you have been following him throughout his career you would know he is no different than most politicians. He panders. He may actually be quite religious (who knows) but the Republicans know that mentioning God all of the time really helps their position on moral values, which have become the main issues in American politics (the new deal democrats no longer control the issue focus).

The reasons for Iraq are up for debate. I know what you think, and I am not going to debate with you about it-it's a dead argument. That is, both sides are way too partisan to argue about it. If his latest speech is true at all though then while I disagree with him for the most part I give him credit for having vision. You should all read it...

[RickSp]

Quote by: Sean Rick, it is what he does best. If you have been following him throughout his career you would know he is no different than most politicians. He panders. He may actually be quite religious (who knows) but the Republicans know that mentioning God all of the time really helps their position on moral values, which have become the main issues in American politics (the new deal democrats no longer control the issue focus). The reasons for Iraq are up for debate. I know what you think, and I am not going to debate with you about it-it's a dead argument. That is, both sides are way too partisan to argue about it. If his latest speech is true at all though then while I disagree with him for the most part I give him credit for having vision. You should all read it...

Come on Sean. Look at the facts. He was at a summit in an Egyptian resort speaking to a Palestinian delegation. He makes a bizarre statement saying that he is on a mission from God, not Allah but Jehovah. Who in hell is he pandering to? Imagine how it must have sounded to a room full of Muslims to have the President of the United States go off on a rant about how his Christian God is giving him orders. He must have come off like General Boykin on a bad day. I won't characterize what his actions might have been but whatever it was, it wasn't pandering.

I though Bush's most recent speech was an insult to the intelligence of the American public. Based at least on all recent polls, the American people agree.

[Sean]

Just because the man says he is on a mission from god does not mean he literally is on a mission for god in my opinion. He is just overly-religious I think. He went for other reasons, and was not alone. Plenty of intelligent (possibly selfish) individuals contributed to going to Iraq I think. I thought the speech was well done, as I have said, and the concept is actually good...

The polls mean nothing at this point. He's a lame duck, and the congress just gave him tons more money for Iraq.

Did you see that letter they nabbed that had an Al Qaeda leader basically resigning to the reality that the terrorist efforts in Afghanistan are not working (they're running out of money)? Should be interesting to see how this develops over the next few years.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/10/07...eda/index.html

[bishop]

congressional appropriations for iraq have virtually nothing to do with their support for bush. i don't see how you can actually connect the two.. especially given that a sizeable majority of the democrats also vote in support of these appropriations - lest they/anyone be accused of not supporting the troops.

bush has regularly rubbed elbows with both the wealthy elite as well as hardcore christian fundamentalists. rick made numerous references to bush's statements.. bush's own father once said that atheists shouldn't be citizens - or something to that effect. to assume that bush is merely using rhetoric to bolster support from his base seems more like wishful thinking than anything else.. none of us truly know bush, but we do know the people he associates himself with, and they are quite the zealous bunch.


as for this letter that we "found" in iraq, i think this is pure and unadulterated propaganda designed by our government to stave off lost support for the war. the evidence available contradicts everything in this fabled letter. attacks in both iraq and afghanistan have been increasing for months. the situation in afghanistan has continuously declined. there are just as many insurgents in iraq now as there were immediately following the capture of baghdad. insurgent attacks are on the increase, as well as terrorist attacks on iraqi civilians. just a couple weeks ago, terrorists began targetting schools. all this while this letter purports that they should stay away from terrorist styled killings of civilians.

i'm calling bullshit as far as this letter goes.. the evidence debunks damn near everything this letter alleges. i think this is propaganda designed to instill a sense of hope in the american public, in order to improve support for the war.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Sean Just because the man says he is on a mission from god does not mean he literally is on a mission for god in my opinion. He is just overly-religious I think. He went for other reasons, and was not alone. Plenty of intelligent (possibly selfish) individuals contributed to going to Iraq I think. I thought the speech was well done, as I have said, and the concept is actually good...

So he wasn't pandering, just overly religious? Don't you think that claiming to be on a mission of the Christian God before a group of Muslims might hint at a certain fanaticism? Or at the very least a complete lack of judgement? Or just possibly both?

I went back and reread his speech. It is a poorly disguised blueprint for what William Kristol calls a "benevolent hegemony". Of course, hegemonies are never benevolent and attempts to achieve them inevitably fail.

His claims about the Islamic radicals are, not surprisingly, just an inversion of what the neo-cons are trying do. He claims that they want to take over a country from which they will change the entire Middle East. That is exactly what the neocons have said that they are attempting. He claims that "they target nations whose behavior they believe they can change through violence". Who is he referring to, the Islamic radicals or his own administration?

Quote by: Sean Did you see that letter they nabbed that had an Al Qaeda leader basically resigning to the reality that the terrorist efforts in Afghanistan are not working (they're running out of money)? Should be interesting to see how this develops over the next few years.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/10/07...eda/index.html

Wouldn't it have been nice if Bush finished Al Qaeda off in Afghanistan when he had the chance instead starting another unrelated war? Even though he denied it in his speech, Bush's own CIA says that Iraq is becoming a greater center for terrorist training and operations than Afghanistan ever was. Al Qaeda may have lost Afghanistan. Such a pity that Bush gave them Iraq as a replacement.

[Scribbler1]

It might be more realistic to think that Bush THINKS he is on a mission from God, and that there is someone he trusts telling him what God wants. Hardcore Christians, such as "born again" Christians seem to be easily led, as long as that leader has some degree of credibility with the people he leads.

People believed in Jimmy Swaggart after he was nabbed with a hooker TWICE.