Sheehan Arrested Outside White House

[gr8fuldaniel]

Check this Scribbler:

ABC Police Apologize, Drop Charge Vs. Sheehan By LAURIE KELLMAN Associated Press Writer The Associated Press WASHINGTON Feb 1, 2006 — Capitol Police dropped a charge of unlawful conduct against anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan on Wednesday and apologized for ejecting her and a congressman's wife from President Bush's State of the Union address for wearing T-shirts with war messages. "The officers made a good faith, but mistaken effort to enforce an old unwritten interpretation of the prohibitions about demonstrating in the Capitol," Capitol Police Chief Terrance Gainer said in a statement late Wednesday. "The policy and procedures were too vague," he added. "The failure to adequately prepare the officers is mine." More....

Quote by: lili462 .... but as far as i know everyone that is serving this country goes on their own will (unless somewhere i missed the draft being reinstated).

Partially true. There are at least two important things to consider.
1) A lot of men and women are NOT there voluntarily. They may have joined up voluntarily under the impression that a) they would be defending their own state in the National Guard. That used to be what the Natonal Guard did. Even in war time. Like when bush jr was in the Guard. b) When their tour is over there are now "Stop-Losses" in place that will not let them come home. It is not a volunteer army when they can break their contract with you but you cant.

2) A lot of men and women joined up under false pretenses. When bush said he was going to get OBL dead or alive, it was a lie. "You know, I dont really think about him much" gwb. A lot of good, well intentioned men and women joined up to fight "The War on Terror". But got sent on a wild goose chase for wmds in Iraq. There were NEVER (in the history of Iraq) any Terrorists in Iraq before we got there and attracted them.

That is NOT what they signed up for. It is an illegal war of pre-emption.

[gr8fuldaniel]

The house has a rule against protests in the gallery. That rule has long been interpreted to include clothing that makes the kind of statement both shirts involved displayed. It was bad form. A no big deal story blown into a conspiracy theory

Wrong Ape. The cops dropped all charges and apologized because there is no such law. Apparrently you dug that out of some crack.

[gr8fuldaniel]

The clue should have been the charges. Misbehaving in public or whatever the hell it was.
Another clue should be BOTH protesters were not treated equally. Do we have Red laws and Blue laws now?

[lili462]

point taken, but still i think shes making way too much of a deal about it. They know they have a chance to die. If you really dont want to be there, do something to get discharged. You dont even have to do something bad to be discharged. My tattoo artist faught in WWII there was a guy on his base that simply didnt want to do it anymore, this is one smart guy, listen to how he got discharged: he started to go around base pretending that he was riding a bike..and i mean he really pretended. He would make it look like he was holding onto bar handles, he would make motions as if he was ringing a bell on his bike. After a while of this he finally got discharged for not being mentally stable. When he walked out of the office or whatever with his signed discharge papers, he walked out like a normal person. One of the higher ups looked at him and said "arent you gonna take your bike?" the man replying "i'll save it for the next guy." what i'm trying to say is if you really dont want to be there, then you would go to lengths to get your self out. so apparently he was no sour about being there, and if he was then he wasnt smart enough to get himself out... there are only three things that you have to do in life (two of them being inevitable) live, pay taxes and die

[lili462]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Wrong Ape. The cops dropped all charges and apologized because there is no such law. Apparrently you dug that out of some crack.

no he didnt pull it out of a crack, they said it last night before the speech began that you cant do that in the gallery.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Check this Scribbler:

No surprise here. I mentioned to my Wife last night that they would release her right AFTER the speech. It was just a way to make her lay low for the duration of the speech.

I still think it was in poor taste, even though she's right. What the more vociferous of the Bush critics don't realize is that when you have any kind of anti-government crusade as she does, the people you MUST win over top your side are Mr. and Mrs. God fearin' Middle American regular folks and they just don't like that shit. In your face politics doesn't play in small town America and in your face PEOPLE just turn them off. A lot of people still think that's disrespectful and she doesn't know how to pick her battles.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: lili462 no he didnt pull it out of a crack, they said it last night before the speech began that you cant do that in the gallery.

Well, according to the story I posted above (#81) :

"The officers made a good faith, but mistaken effort to enforce an old unwritten interpretation of the prohibitions about demonstrating in the Capitol,"

If its an "Unwritten Prohibition, its not really a "law", is it?

[lili462]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Well, according to the story I posted above (#81) : If its an "Unwritten Prohibition, its not really a "law", is it?

good point, and good point taken

[gr8fuldaniel]

Scribbler was her shirt really THAT bad? I mean if it said "BUSH JUNIOR EATS PUPPIES FOR BREAKFAST ....and babies for lunch", It might be different. Her shirt had the factual number of war dead. Are we supposed to be ashamed of the war dead?
Shouldnt they be remembered? Who ISNT concerned? I think it should have also listed the number of innocent Iraqi dead and the journalists. Would "dear leader' rather we didnt talk about the war at all?

BOTTOM LINE:
The killing is good.
Talking about it is bad.

[RickSp]

To their credit the police treated Sheehan and the congressman's wife exactly the same - badly. And to their greater credit, they realized it and apologized.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Scribbler1 No surprise here. I mentioned to my Wife last night that they would release her right AFTER the speech. It was just a way to make her lay low for the duration of the speech.

That was the whole case all about. No surprise to me, either.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Scribbler was her shirt really THAT bad? I mean if it said "BUSH JUNIOR EATS PUPPIES FOR BREAKFAST ....and babies for lunch", It might be different. Her shirt had the factual number of war dead. Are we supposed to be ashamed of the war dead?

It was her choice of venue. Remember I'm talking about how other people see her and middle america types don't like that. The shirt itself was actually pretty mild, but that isn't the point.
Remember the slogan, "you don't have to respect the man but you should respect the office?" It's bullshit but a LOT of people believe it. You want mom and pop to sympathize with your point? Don't annoy them by disrespecting what many still think is an important occasion.

[RickSp]

Scribbler, two t-shirt wearers, both invited, neither being disruptive, were thrown out of the visitor's gallery. One was pro-war. One was anti-war. As long as neither raised a rucus, they should have been left alone, which the Capital Hill police as much as acknowledged today. The Republic, what is left of it anyway, is probably still strong enough not to be threatened by political t-shirts.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I still think it was in poor taste, even though she's right. What the more vociferous of the Bush critics don't realize is that when you have any kind of anti-government crusade as she does, the people you MUST win over top your side are Mr. and Mrs. God fearin' Middle American regular folks and they just don't like that shit. In your face politics doesn't play in small town America and in your face PEOPLE just turn them off.

What you evidently fail to realize is that it was exactly that kind of "in your face" politics and people that finally ended the debacle in Vietnam. I hope she continues to be just that kind of person.

Her son may have volunteered for service, but every enlistee has the basic right to responsible leadership and not have their lives thrown away carelessly. Think where we'd be if bush jr. hadn't started his war - the inspectors would still be running all around looking for phantom WMD's, there wouldn't be thousands of dead and maimed GI's, and we'd have about $800 billion dollars to invest in alternative energy sources.

bush, cheney, and the rest of the cabal should be flown straight to Nuremburg and put on trial.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Well, according to the story I posted above (#81) : If its an "Unwritten Prohibition, its not really a "law", is it?

You'll note that I used the term "rule", not "law". The rule was being enforced.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: RickSp Scribbler, two t-shirt wearers, both invited, neither being disruptive, were thrown out of the visitor's gallery. One was pro-war. One was anti-war. As long as neither raised a rucus, they should have been left alone, which the Capital Hill police as much as acknowledged today. The Republic, what is left of it anyway, is probably still strong enough not to be threatened by political t-shirts.

Time and a place. This event was neither of the two.

Scribbler is right. Bad form.

Perhaps we should ask why none of the 2000+ Mothers of fallen soldiers were not invited.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Apeman81 Perhaps we should ask why none of the 2000+ Mothers of fallen soldiers were not invited.

At least one WAS invited. Cindy Sheehan.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Zeebadee What you evidently fail to realize is that it was exactly that kind of "in your face" politics and people that finally ended the debacle in Vietnam. I hope she continues to be just that kind of person.

I see it a little differently. Back then we HAD the "in your face" attitude and it got us nowhere. When the PARENTS began to see it as the debacle it had become is when the war was over. Sure, a lot of us protested and that put a face on the anti war movement but the older people who had the money and actually voted were the turning point.

Perhaps I should clarify my position. I am not supporting tapping people on the shoulder and saying, "Uh, excuse me. I just wanted to tell you I feel this Bush fellow is not doing his job properly. Perhaps we should send him a letter to that effect or something."

I'm saying we have to find out where the line between gaining support and driving people away is and try not to cross it. And the FIRST thing we do is ignore Vietnam and stop referring to it as some kind of rulebook for how to oppose a president. It was a different time and a different president. The fact that this asshole started this war and was elected a SECOND time should tell you something. I didn't elect the guy, did you? You have to wise up and think for a second. Who put this man in office, twice? Figure that out and you know who do go after. One thing I can tell you is every single person I have EVER spoken with who likes Bush does NOT like "in your face". What they DO respond to, if they respond to anything is the unshakeable facts of the situation.
Take a clue from forums like this one. If you nail a Bush supporter with some solid fact that he can't argue he doesn't respond to you. Now, what if he was sitting across the table at Starbucks and you do the same thing? He still can't argue against this solid point, but he HAS to listen, and in listening he might be forced to consider your side.

You want to change something? Then it's time to wake up and see the Internet is not the place to get anything like this done and shoving a T-shirt up a conservative's nose won't win you too many converts. You can have the fucking 60's. I have no taste for them a second time.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: RickSp Scribbler, two t-shirt wearers, both invited, neither being disruptive, were thrown out of the visitor's gallery. One was pro-war. One was anti-war. As long as neither raised a rucus, they should have been left alone, which the Capital Hill police as much as acknowledged today. The Republic, what is left of it anyway, is probably still strong enough not to be threatened by political t-shirts.

I think they both should have been allowed as a matter of principle. My objection is to what effect did she think she would have. Did she think Bush would collapse on the floor sobbing when he saw her shirt? I'm SURE she figured all the TV cameras would be on her but what would she gain?

And I believe the only mistake the cops made was throwing out the pro-war woman, unless they thought by tossing BOTH of them it wouldn't look like Sheehan was singled out.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Scribbler1 And the FIRST thing we do is ignore Vietnam and stop referring to it as some kind of rulebook for how to oppose a president. It was a different time and a different president. The fact that this asshole started this war and was elected a SECOND time should tell you something.

I disagree. Similar to bush, Nixon was reelected in the middle of the war. I believe that without the strident and "in your face" attitude of the protest movement that war would have gone on much longer. It's going to take a major effort to get the media to devote some decent coverage to the anti-war movement. Look at the bushbots in here.... no amount of talk or recitation of facts will ever convince them that bush is wrong. If bush won't pull our troops out voluntarily, it will take a 60's type effort to effect change.