Sheehan Arrested Outside White House

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Irene Are these the statements that those of you who support Cindy Sheehan stand by????? :eek: "America has been killing people on this continent since it was started."

I disagree with her anthropormophism of "America". However, it cannot be disputed that the military forces of this country sought to nearly exterminate the native peoples under its alleged domain (i.e. Native Americans).

Quote by: Irene "This country is not worth dying for..."

I would die to defend my home and my family, but not "my" government.

Quote by: Irene "When I was growing up, it was Communists. Now it's Terrorists. So you always have to have somebody to fight and be afraid of, so the war machine can build more bombs, guns, and bullets and everything."

It's easier to support what the government is doing when you think there's an Enemy out to get you. Fear is probably the strongest motivator of all, as it is the most primal emotion.

Quote by: Irene "They're not waging a War on Terror but a War of Terror. The biggest terrorist is George W. Bush."

That may be a matter of opinion, but Mr. Bush's policies have not helped terrorism. In fact, from what I have read, his policies have only helped terrorism become worse. Furthermore, his policies have led to more people dying than Osama bin Laden's.

Quote by: Irene "My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel."

A majority of the so-called "neoconservatives" are Jewish and have ties to Israel's Likud party. This is beyond dispute.

Quote by: Irene "You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism."

The United States government, for better or worse, cannot control the Israeli government's actions; but it can control its own. I do agree that getting US troops out of Iraq, and the more than 100 other foreign countries in which they are stationed, would do much to quell the "terrorist threat".

Quote by: Irene "Thank God for the Internet, or we wouldn't know anything, and we would already be a fascist state."

Before the advent of the Internet, the national media was largely controlled by the "Big Three" television networks (ABC, CBS, and NBC) and the national newspapers (New York Times, Washington Post, and Los Angeles Times). It seems to be common knowledge that Big Media, Big Business, and Big Government are all friends. Thus, the trend in information, as well as in government and business, was one of increasing centralization -- until the Internet.

Quote by: Irene "George Bush needs to stop talking, admit the mistakes of his all around failed administration, pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans."

I agree with Ms. Sheehan (whose name, interestingly enough, means "peacemaker" in Gaelic) that the Bush administration is a failure. Furthermore, I agree that "our troops" should be pulled out of New Orleans.

Quote by: Irene "We have this lying bastard, George Bush, taking a 5-week vacation in a time of war."

"Lying bastard" is not a phrase I would use, true or not. Vacation time, however, is different. From what I hear, though, Presidents usually work even on vacation.

I hope this helps. Although I can't speak for others, I can speak for myself.

- Rob

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Irene "I have said publicly for years that weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein pose a real and grave threat to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. Saddam Hussein's record bears this out. " Quote by JOHN KERRY. I noticed that Rsp only listed 1 democrat on his list

All that shows is that there were (and are) pro-war Democrats. That's nothing new. Personally, though, I support Democrats even less than I support Republicans.

- Rob

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Livemike Well you're wrong. Patriotism is love of your country, not what your countries representatives are doing. If they started murdering Jews would it be "patriotic" to support that? If so thank god I'm not a "patriot". It is patriotic to do what is best for the country not to support the decisions of one's "representatives" or presidents. If the decisions of these are what is best for the country then there is no conflict. To support a decision that is bad for the country merely because it's a decision of someone you voted for (or didn't) is the antithesis of patriotism.

Eh, I wouldn't say that he's wrong. "Patriotism" is a subjective thing -- it can mean whatever one wants it to mean. However, looking back at history, one can see that when people define it as supporting one's country without question, it often leads to a downward spiral of destruction. I think what's important is to keep in mind that one's country and one's government are not the same thing.

- Rob

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tinybear She's saying what a lot of America is thinking? Are you sure?

Well, I suppose it depends on how you define "a lot"... :)

- Rob

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tinybear She's saying what a lot of America is thinking? Are you sure?

tiny, I live in the USA and speak to people here. Where do you live?

[tinybear]

C'mon, Uncle Patrick. I grief for her and it was a great loss, but, hey, you gotta admit she said a lot of nonsense.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tinybear C'mon, Uncle Patrick. I grief for her and it was a great loss, but, hey, you gotta admit she said a lot of nonsense.

Among her public(ized) statements, which ones do you consider to be nonsense?

- Rob

[Irene]

[quote=Autolykos]


I agree with Ms. Sheehan (whose name, interestingly enough, means "peacemaker" in Gaelic) that the Bush administration is a failure. Furthermore, I agree that "our troops" should be pulled out of New Orleans.


Which way do you people want it? Scream and cry that our government did not intercede fast enough, Now they want them out :eek:

[RickSp]

Quote by: tinybear She's saying what a lot of America is thinking? Are you sure?

The polls say that only something like only 30 - 40% approve of Bush's handling of Iraq. 50 - 60% say troops should begin phased or immediate withdrawal. Over half say that Bush's war in Iraq has made us less safe than before.

That qualifies as a lot.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Autolykos Among her public(ized) statements, which ones do you consider to be nonsense? - Rob

Lots of it has already been quoted by others in this thread. Go and have a look. They're quite obvious.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Irene Which way do you people want it? Scream and cry that our government did not intercede fast enough, Now they want them out :eek:

Who's "you people"?

I, for one, never screamed or cried that "our government" did not intercede fast enough. In fact, the disaster was made worse in the first place by government. The troops should never have been sent to New Orleans in the first place.

- Rob

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tinybear C'mon, Uncle Patrick. I grief for her and it was a great loss, but, hey, you gotta admit she said a lot of nonsense.

Nope. What Cindy says makes sense to me. You didn't answer the question, tiny. Your location? HK, China right? Not the USA?

Lots of Americans are getting the whiff of the Bush policy of death.

[tinybear]

Quote by: RickSp The polls say that only something like only 30 - 40% approve of Bush's handling of Iraq. 50 - 60% say troops should begin phased or immediate withdrawal. Over half say that Bush's war in Iraq has made us less safe than before. That qualifies as a lot.

Polls are notoriously inaccurate and easily manipulated. You can get the answers you want just by asking the 'right' questions in the 'right' sequence.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tinybear Lots of it has already been quoted by others in this thread. Go and have a look. They're quite obvious.

I have responded to her statements that were quoted by Irene. Did you read my responses? If not, please do and get back to me.

- Rob

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tinybear Polls are notoriously inaccurate and easily manipulated. You can get the answers you want just by asking the 'right' questions in the 'right' sequence.

I agree with you, which is why I do not cite polls. With all due respect, however, would you be saying that if a poll came out which indicated that the majority of Americans still supports Bush's policies in Iraq?

- Rob

[tinybear]

A poll could well indicate that, yes. It's perfectly possible.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: tinybear A poll could well indicate that, yes. It's perfectly possible.

What I mean is, if such a poll came out now, would you still be saying that polls are notoriously inaccurate and easily manipulated, or would you point to it and say "This one speaks the truth!" ?

- Rob

[tinybear]

No, I'd say any poll ought to be taken with a pinch of salt. You must also find out who commissioned it.

[tinybear]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Nope. What Cindy says makes sense to me. You didn't answer the question, tiny. Your location? HK, China right? Not the USA? Lots of Americans are getting the whiff of the Bush policy of death.

I may be in Hong Kong, but I communicate with lots of Americans everyday. Not a lot of them are Cindy fans.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: tinybear No, I'd say any poll ought to be taken with a pinch of salt. You must also find out who commissioned it.

Why not just get a copy of the poll and READ it? It's all in how the questions are asked and that should be evident if the poll takers would release the questions.