The US vs the UN

[Matt W]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle308269.ece

America's controversial new ambassador to the United Nations is seeking to shred an agreement on strengthening the world body and fighting poverty intended to be the highlight of a 60th anniversary summit next month. In the extraordinary intervention, John Bolton has sought to roll back proposed UN commitments on aid to developing countries, combating global warming and nuclear disarmament. Mr Bolton has demanded no fewer than 750 amendments to the blueprint restating the ideals of the international body, which was originally drafted by the UN secretary general, Kofi Annan. The amendments are spelt out in a 32-page US version, first reported by the Washington Post and acquired yesterday by The Independent. The document is littered with deletions and exclusions. Most strikingly, the changes eliminate all specific reference to the so-called Millennium Development Goals, accepted by all countries at the last major UN summit in 2000, including the United States.

Seems like John Bolton's out to wreck the UN....very much a 'my way or the highway' approach...

[mr.perfecto]

Rightly so. Americans are fat right? Are we supposed to send people to the UN that won't throw that weight around? And have you seen Annan? Ever seen a guy that looked more dishonest? Those declarations of rights are just justifications for the future take over of America by the Axis of Evil. Mr. Bolton may just be what we need to save us from such a horrible fate and usher in the Pax-Americana Era. If we don't keep the UN in check, we are going to have to deal with Radical Islamists and Commies on the moon. I can barely stand to imagine the disgraces they will inflict on our flag up there. Think Globally, Act with Confidence. If we have to have one world government, it should be dominated by American interests.

[Matt W]

If we have to have one world government, it should be dominated by American interests.

I think I speak for the majority of the world when I say 'piss right off'. We don't want you lording it over us and your governments' cynical attempts to destroy anyone's independence is sickening. You want a backlash from people you count as allies? Then carry on with Bolton, by all means.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Matt W Annan? Ever seen a guy that looked more dishonest?

The Chimp?

Quote by: mr.perfecto Pax-Americana Era.

No thanks and I think the world outside the US is saying no, too...

Quote by: mr.perfecto If we have to have one world government, it should be dominated by American interests.

Sorry buddy. I won't stand for ANY New World Order, dominated by "American" interests or not. They're all globalists and seek my destruction. I will resist!

[jose]

May i add ¨American interests¨ doesnt equate with the interests of the American people

[belverron]

Mr.perfecto just wrote "Axis of Evil." In a non-sarcastic way. Please excuse me while I shoot myself.

*edit* And Pax Americana *retches* That's the term we're supposed to use to criticize it! Look where it got the Romans.

[Milton Bradley]

You knew there had to be a reason why Bush wanted Mr. Bolton to man this position.


Who else would have the stones to propose such sweeping changes other than the UN hater himself?

[mr.perfecto]

It pains me to see so many of my fellow Americans being such obvious dupes. You are connected to the internet and have a massive amount of information within your reach.

Go over to wikipedia and read up on the Romans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire

Thank God for the Neocons. At least some people understand that American world domination is ten times better than American isolation. What other nation has been so consistently willing to wage war to secure the peace? You just can't win with some people. Everyone hates you until they have a need for you I guess.

[Monorprise]

Quote by: Matt W http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle308269.ece Seems like John Bolton's out to wreck the UN....very much a 'my way or the highway' approach...

It seem odd, for Canadians, who seem so deftly apposed to integration with the United States of America. That you would support an even more foreran defamation in the forum of UN world Government. Somehow The UN has gotten Bush, to support their socialist BS, that we know doesn’t work, and never will work, except to create more problems.
You cannot re-distribute wealth and expect an economy to succeed, and the poor to be uplifted because what really happens is you provide people with a disincentive to work hard, keep their government in check. Improve themselves, while at the same time, you make it almost impossible for anyone who does want to work hard and make money! The end result is 2 fold!
1. The government becomes more corrupt, the longer and wider spread this program becomes, as the majority of the electorate becomes addicted to their care, and therefore unable to hold the people in power accountable, or really effect any kind of change, in a political system where threats of with draw, are intolerable to the majority(or at least undefeatable large Minority, in a system where the nature of multiple parties had the odd tendencies to divided the vote in each district leaving only a minority support to the party in control of a majority of the 1 elected federal body.). That’s even more difficult to over come, in the Canadian system, as the opposition of 1 party gets split among a multitude of others, leaving that 1 party still in control. And it’s only going to get worse as Canada gets larger in populations, and inevitably more diverse, politically, and culturally. As the number of opposition views points will grow exponentially. Leaving the party and basic policies of that party in control with an effective monopoly on power, a majority of the time. Meaning the system as it is cannot likely be fixed.
2. Wealth, if you want people to be successful you have to give them the incentive to be successful, or even go to work! And no Canada can not resort to using the police force towards this regards, as that opens the door to allowing Canada to become an effective police state that uses its entire population as effective slave labor. And not only is that extremely horrifically undesirable, it also doesn’t really work, as people forced to work, just like slaves don’t tend to do good work! Success is built upon individual people, who know their own field, and are working very much in their own interest! This is part of human the Human drive God, or evolution gave us to survive. People ultimately must be able to make their own choices, and they are natural driven towards their own advancement, not in political power or matter! But in what they as individuals in their field see as valid! Now of course no one on this earth, can know every filed as well as the experts in that field. In addition to meaning that you can not have government control over each part of your economy. You must also allow the individuals of your economy to do What they think is best for them and their business, as only they with their competitors can chooses how resources must be managed most effetely! This means you can’t allow government to tax people to death, or take too much of the much needed capital from the industries that need it to continue to function, and be successful! This is where socialism which is really a greed based enterprise, greed on the part of theses who want something fro nothing, and greed on the part of the political leaders that want their support. The inherent problem is, in order to get that support someone has to produce it, and then government has to tax it, redistribute it! All the while, no one in the government, or on this earth! Except maybe god, is in a position to know what an economy needs to in order to be successful! IE be able to actual produce enough money at the government’s tax(including re-distribution) rate and still ultimately be able to produce at least as much income, for the government!! to say nothing of the nations total wealth production capable and the individual income that citizens in that nation can make, in order to provide for themselves everything else that the government does not! And when that becomes a problem as the government in order to maintain existing programs and the people who have become increasingly depended upon, will requires more and more money! And the government has to somehow come up with that money! That means more taxes! Which inevitable weakens the economy even further! As a result, the poor become even poorer, the government because less and less able to technical help them, and the rest of the country goes with it! This is why socialisms only ends up hurting people in the long run a lot more than it does anyone any good in the short term. You can’t fix poverty via government charity the system can not be sustained!!


Regardless of this fact, the UN Still seems intent on trying it doing it again anyway. This means the amount of control the UN is going to except on its members nations if it is allowed to do this, will usurp the solvency of each of its member nations. You fear the US, well the US is right next door, our interests are at least remotely inline with yours in this regards. The “United Nations” today is attempting to take that power over you and everyone else! And if they are successful, almost no one will be free from this unelected government. I know Canadians have a hard time seeing the inherit problem a indirectly elected effective head of state and head of government. as it means inevitable, a usurpation of the regional/domestic interest and ultimately rights, by the interest of the In this case (global community) or at least by whoever has been selected to run it.

[belverron]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Go over to wikipedia and read up on the Romans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire

But where are they now?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: mr.perfecto It pains me to see so many of my fellow Americans being such obvious dupes. You are connected to the internet and have a massive amount of information within your reach. Go over to wikipedia and read up on the Romans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire Thank God for the Neocons. At least some people understand that American world domination is ten times better than American isolation. What other nation has been so consistently willing to wage war to secure the peace? You just can't win with some people. Everyone hates you until they have a need for you I guess.

Oh great, you advocate them spending my money to further their own cause. How thoughtful of you.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: belverron But where are they now?

They're in the historical dustbin. Why? Because they didn't have neocons. The neocons aren't thinking short term, are they? These are not people drifting from whim to whim, but using reasonable measures to defend the status of our nation. If every Roman emperor had been a neocon, short of natural disasters, the Pax Romana would still be in progress today.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: mr.perfecto They're in the historical dustbin. Why? Because they didn't have neocons. The neocons aren't thinking short term, are they? These are not people drifting from whim to whim, but using reasonable measures to defend the status of our nation. If every Roman emperor had been a neocon, short of natural disasters, the Pax Romana would still be in progress today.

Probably true.


So you like the concept of a small, elite, ruling class lording over a massive slave population?


Well, we are pretty much back to that model of government now, so you should having a good old time by now.

[monty of ll]

How could it ever be the U.S. against the U.N. when the U.S. is a fifth of the controlling factors in the S.C? Isn't it a matter of the U.S. supporting the U.N. when it is useful to do it's bidding and then condemning the U.N. when it attempts to put a stop to U.S. led wars? Wouldn't it be rather silly to condemn the U.N. when it's major founding principal was to prevent wars?

As with the U.N.'s hard work to prevent this current Iraq war with it's inspecions in Iraq and it's countries attempting to prevent the coming war with diplomacy, wouldn't it be a little silly to blame the U.N. for being ineffective when it was the U.S. that insisted on war and caused the U.N. to be ineffective?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: mr.perfecto It pains me to see so many of my fellow Americans being such obvious dupes

Me. too, perfecto. I guess we just differ on the who's who!

Quote by: mr.perfecto Thank God for the Neocons.

No, I thank God for the internet so I can see through their Satanic lies.

Quote by: mr.perfecto What other nation has been so consistently willing to wage war to secure the peace?

The US has been an aggressor nation since the beginning. Secure the peace? Where did you hear this rhetoric, or is that your own phrase? Right wing talk radio, I bet...

[Matt W]

The neocons aren't thinking short term, are they? These are not people drifting from whim to whim, but using reasonable measures to defend the status of our nation.

Hahahahahaha!

Ahem.

Firstly, Mr.Perfecto, let me apologise for perhaps being a tad harsh in my initial response to your 1st post. Allow me to elaborate somewhat further in more moderate language.

Firstly, 'neo-cons aren't thinking short term'. Really? Iraq was planned for the long-term, was it? How...intriguing. Personally, I thought Iraq was the classic example of an attempt at a quick-fix going horrendously wrong. And as for neocons not 'drifting from whim to whim' then may I ask about Syria? About N.Korea? Oh, and especially Afghanistan.....

Enough of that aside.

Let me first point out that I'm a Brit - one of your closest allies - and I am appalled by your attempts to advocate Empire-building. Have you not learnt anything from history? And you can guarantee that the majority of Britains would feel exactly the same way. We will not allow our troops to be used as auxiliaries in a Pax Americana. Blair's suffered tremendously for his stupidity in involving us in Iraq, and the US administration has snubbed him at every turn for his loyalty. Somehow I doubt he'll make that mistake again. Isolating your allies is not how you build an Empire - diplomacy and overwhelming might is the way to do so - and right now you have neither.

China & Russia could cripple you economically should they choose to do so, simply by calling in their debts. They could destroy the US ten times over with their nuclear arsenals. And you think they'll stand idly by and let the US dominate the world? Did you not notice their joint military excercises over the last few weeks? Probably not. :rolleyes:

You, see, Mr.Perfecto, the reason why Pax Americana will never happen is because the rest of the world isn't as blinkered as the neocons. We pay attention to what's happening inside the US, and we act accordingly - remember your illegal steel tariffs? The EU fixed that by aiming tariffs on fruit produced in Florida - a particularly sensitive area for Mr.Bush.

You talk about thinking long-term, but I see no evidence of it. You want evidence of long-term planning, I suggest you examine the Chinese.

[oranged]

Quote by: mr.perfecto Rightly so. Americans are fat right? Are we supposed to send people to the UN that won't throw that weight around? And have you seen Annan? Ever seen a guy that looked more dishonest? Those declarations of rights are just justifications for the future take over of America by the Axis of Evil. Mr. Bolton may just be what we need to save us from such a horrible fate and usher in the Pax-Americana Era. If we don't keep the UN in check, we are going to have to deal with Radical Islamists and Commies on the moon. I can barely stand to imagine the disgraces they will inflict on our flag up there. Think Globally, Act with Confidence. If we have to have one world government, it should be dominated by American interests.

You haven't noticed that American interests are money and power. I rembember hearing this kind of thing from another nationalist. His name was Genghis Kahn (He acually used the term "pax-mongolia").

[oranged]

Quote by: Matt W Hahahahahaha! Ahem. Firstly, Mr.Perfecto, let me apologise for perhaps being a tad harsh in my initial response to your 1st post. Allow me to elaborate somewhat further in more moderate language. Firstly, 'neo-cons aren't thinking short term'. Really? Iraq was planned for the long-term, was it? How...intriguing. Personally, I thought Iraq was the classic example of an attempt at a quick-fix going horrendously wrong. And as for neocons not 'drifting from whim to whim' then may I ask about Syria? About N.Korea? Oh, and especially Afghanistan..... Enough of that aside. Let me first point out that I'm a Brit - one of your closest allies - and I am appalled by your attempts to advocate Empire-building. Have you not learnt anything from history? And you can guarantee that the majority of Britains would feel exactly the same way. We will not allow our troops to be used as auxiliaries in a Pax Americana. Blair's suffered tremendously for his stupidity in involving us in Iraq, and the US administration has snubbed him at every turn for his loyalty. Somehow I doubt he'll make that mistake again. Isolating your allies is not how you build an Empire - diplomacy and overwhelming might is the way to do so - and right now you have neither. China & Russia could cripple you economically should they choose to do so, simply by calling in their debts. They could destroy the US ten times over with their nuclear arsenals. And you think they'll stand idly by and let the US dominate the world? Did you not notice their joint military excercises over the last few weeks? Probably not. :rolleyes: You, see, Mr.Perfecto, the reason why Pax Americana will never happen is because the rest of the world isn't as blinkered as the neocons. We pay attention to what's happening inside the US, and we act accordingly - remember your illegal steel tariffs? The EU fixed that by aiming tariffs on fruit produced in Florida - a particularly sensitive area for Mr.Bush. You talk about thinking long-term, but I see no evidence of it. You want evidence of long-term planning, I suggest you examine the Chinese.

I agree that China and Russia could destroy America. If China gave America a trade sanction, America would be doomed, china would not, because they've bought oil companies as insurance, which is clearly evidence that they're planning something.