Soldiers clash with Gaza settlers

[Trotsky]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4155184.stm

Clashes have broken out in the Gaza Strip as Israeli troops enforcing the withdrawal plan prepare to evict Jewish settlers remaining in the area. Several were arrested following scuffles in the Neve Dekalim settlement during which bins were set alight and water cannon put on standby. Security forces had cut through the gate of the settlement in southern Gaza, which had been blocked by crowds. Protesters, who shouted insults at the troops, have until 2100 GMT to leave. If they do not, they face forcible eviction. On the Palestinian side, marchers have been celebrating the pullout. Many of Gaza's 8,500 Jewish settlers have already left - but thousands have ignored the eviction notices delivered by security forces on Monday.

Again hard-line religious nuts seek to undermine anything that resembles as step towards peace.....wonder what the Palestinian nuts are going to say now? The whole situation is hard enough as it is without scum on both sides making it increasingly more difficult for any real progress to be made.

[monty of ll]

What's wrong with the idea of leaving these protesters where they are and letting the Palestinians 'take them out'?

[PatrickHenry]

Will the Israelis release the housing to the Palestinians after vacating the area? Or do they intend to demolish the buildings out of spite?

[monty of ll]

C'mon Patrick, they're Israelis.

[Chris]

Quote by: monty of ll What's wrong with the idea of leaving these protesters where they are and letting the Palestinians 'take them out'?

though it sounds like a good idea, I believe it would only spark more violence. Stubborn settlers deaths may cause more heavy handedness from Israel.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: monty of ll C'mon Patrick, they're Israelis.

Not sure of your meaning, monty. I mean what would be wrong with doing something nice? It is actually MORE WORK to wreck the dwellings, and the Palestinians are short of housing anyway. Wouldn't it be a conciliatory move to just turn the homes over to the Palestinian Authrity for the use of displaced Palestinian families?

[monty of ll]

I meant Patrick, being Israelis who don't do nice things for Palestinians because they hate them as a rule, they are destroying the buildings. But I hear that they aren't destroying the infrastructure such as power and water etc. The stated reason why they are destroying the buildings is because they say they aren't suited to Palestinian families. That and a few other minor reasons such as Pals. flying their flags from them in victory. I can't imagine why they would be so vindictive about the houses otherwise but maybe one of the rabid righties can put a positive spin on it for us. Mr. Vicchio seems to have an active imagination when it comes to defence of evil!

Actually Patrick, what's more interesting to me is the reason why the Israelis are doing this. Reasons could be:

Making it look to the world that they are giving away everything and thereby diffuse the issue of the West Bank and Jerusalem which they intend to keep.

Doing it because the U.S. demands it for appeasement of the terrorist goals. (appeasement of Bin Laden)

Sharon's main reason being that it's too hard to defend.

Check out Al Jazeera where they have a poll on this question at the bottom of their main page. http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage Their readers chose to call it 'tactical maneuvering' at 47%. That would be my first choice, meaning that the Zionist faction is going to scream and holler poor me, poor me enough to turn world sentiment towards them so they will be seen as justified in keeping the rest of what doesn't belong to them. That could be the reason for the sideshow we are seeing on the BBC news right now.

[G. Adams]

The housing will be demolished as requested by the Palestinian Authority. If the settlements were left intact, it would leave the Palestinians with the headache of who the hell gets those homes, which lets face it are a bit more upscale than the what the majority of palestinians currently reside in.

I would, just for the sake of poetic justice, ignore the protestors and just send the bulldozers in. "Hey look, they were sitting down and we just didn't see them..." They never warn the Palestinians they're gonna wreck their houses, don't see why these people are getting special treatment.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: monty of ll enough to turn world sentiment towards them so they will be seen as justified in keeping the rest of what doesn't belong to them.

Bingo!

But they could just lottery them off, Adams...

[Trotsky]

Quote by: G. Adams The housing will be demolished as requested by the Palestinian Authority. If the settlements were left intact, it would leave the Palestinians with the headache of who the hell gets those homes, which lets face it are a bit more upscale than the what the majority of palestinians currently reside in. I would, just for the sake of poetic justice, ignore the protestors and just send the bulldozers in. "Hey look, they were sitting down and we just didn't see them..." They never warn the Palestinians they're gonna wreck their houses, don't see why these people are getting special treatment.

That's a bit harsh Gerry! I'm no fan of the settlers either, but I don't see the point in adding more carcasses to te ever growing pile of dead in the middle east.

[jose]

meanwhile back in jerusalem.
Sharon is an old general, a master of manoeuvres. While we are reporting the demise of the Gaza settlements, he is presiding over the creation and expansion of settlements in more strategically important areas, where few are watching. According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, 3,981 new "housing units" are under construction in the occupied West Bank. At the same time, the Israeli government is building apartments and infrastructure on the outskirts of Jerusalem, to consolidate its hold over the city both Israelis and Palestinians claim as their capital
None of this is accidental. By unilaterally surrendering Gaza, Israel has seized the initiative, and bought itself international goodwill and time.

"We were stuck, so we decided to change the strategic equation," explained an Israeli general. Whatever the talk about the "road map to peace", after withdrawing from Gaza, there will be little pressure on Israel to negotiate on Jerusalem or anything else.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200508150009

[G. Adams]

Quote by: Trotsky That's a bit harsh Gerry! I'm no fan of the settlers either, but I don't see the point in adding more carcasses to te ever growing pile of dead in the middle east.

Okay, well I don't really want to see it, I certainly don't want more bodies, but the inevitable outcry it would cause might help the Palestinians. Perhaps it would lead to the policy of bulldozing homes being stopped, at least.

[PatrickHenry]

So now the demoliton of usable housing is underway.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/b961db68-12...00e2511c8.html

Why destroy good houses? Why not turn them over to the Palestinian Authority as a gesture of goodwill?

The decision to destroy some 2,000 settler homes in the territory was taken unilaterally by Israel, but in co-ordination with the PA. Under a deal yet to be signed formally, Israel agreed to remove all asbestos from the buildings and to pay civilian contractors to sort the rubble. More than three-quarters of the material will be recycled for use in Gaza as building aggregate. The remaining waste will be shipped out, mostly likely to Egypt, where it will be disposed of in the Sinai. <snip> Infrastructure such as water and electricity lines will remain in place, as will the road system in the settlements. The PA has been discussing building high-rise apartment blocks in some of the evacuated areas, which cover around 20 per cent of the Gaza Strip, to house Palestinians, particularly those made homeless in Israeli military operations. Elsewhere in Gaza, Israeli contractors uprooted olive and palm trees to replant them in Israel. In some settlements, homes were stripped of everything down to their window frames, while others, where small numbers of settlers were still packing up, still had washing on the lines.

The demolition of the houses is hate. All you Israeli apologists...never say the Palestinians have cornered the market on hate. The Zionists have exposed their ungrace with this demolition. It was their big chance to show something kind to the world, but I guess you can't conceal what you are...

[Matt W]

Err...not that I'm an Israeli apologist in any way, PH, but there's lots of encouraging noises from the PA encouraging this demolition - they want to start from the ground up, build high-rise flats & so forth, and generally make it more 'Palestinian' in character - if they awarded the houses as they are, they wouldn't be able to house half as many people, and they'd get accused of corruption in the process.

If the Israelis really wanted to get nasty, they'd tear up the roads and the power & water infrastructure - which they're not.

[Trotsky]

Quote by: Matt W Err...not that I'm an Israeli apologist in any way, PH, but there's lots of encouraging noises from the PA encouraging this demolition - they want to start from the ground up, build high-rise flats & so forth, and generally make it more 'Palestinian' in character - if they awarded the houses as they are, they wouldn't be able to house half as many people, and they'd get accused of corruption in the process. If the Israelis really wanted to get nasty, they'd tear up the roads and the power & water infrastructure - which they're not.

Yeah, that is true, the Israeli's are leaving all the infrastructure in place, shops, schools and medical centres. Only the houses and private property are being destroyed, and this is being done at the request of the PA.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Trotsky this is being done at the request of the PA.

Your source?

[dliw]

If they were truly hate filled Zionists they would leave Gaza as the Romans left Carthage. Desolated and devastated.

The West Bank and most especially Jerusalem shall not be forgotten by the anti-West anti-Israel coalition presently residing in the UN. Nor shall the Golan Heights be neglected.

Hamas has declared victory and Hezbollah is rejoicing. Their blood lust shall soon reinfect the masses of the easily influenced and the bombings will begin anew.

There won't be peace until Israel as a State is destroyed and the Jews driven out after a great slaughter.

[Trotsky]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Your source?

The BBC

[Matt W]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4160026.stm

When the settlers have been removed from Gaza, the Israeli army will demolish their mainly suburban-style homes and Palestinian and Egyptian contractors will help clear up the rubble. This is at the request of the Palestinian Authority, which needs multi-storey buildings to deal with densely populated Gaza's housing crisis. Heavily fortified army posts that protected settlements, controlled Palestinians' freedom of movement and segmented their territory will be dismantled and removed.

[righthand]

Quote by: Matt W Err...not that I'm an Israeli apologist in any way.

I'm not convinced.

1. Who will pay to have them knocked down?

2. Who will pay to put up the higher density houses/flats?

3. Who will pay to re-house the illegal settlers, probable again on illegal sites so it can all be repeated again and again and again until ...???

Who's fooling who here.

Would it be the US taxpayer?

Why not, it's of your making!

Hope I'm on thread?