Israeli bus killer lynched by mob

[Trotsky]

BBC Article here

Quote by: BBC An Israeli soldier who shot dead four people on a bus in an Israeli Arab town has been lynched by an angry crowd.The 19-year-old, believed to have deserted in protest against the Gaza pullout this month, opened fire as the bus passed through Shfaram. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called the incident a reprehensible act by a "bloodthirsty terrorist". The gunman was beaten to death by a crowd of people who stormed the bus after his weapon ran out of bullets. Israel is preparing to pull its settlers and soldiers out of the Gaza Strip and correspondents say there have been fears of attacks by Jewish settlers opposed to the pullout.

As per usual, militant settlers serve only to undermine the Israeli state, creating more violence and giving more ammunition to Hamas at al, who lets face it don't need any justification to blow up a few jewish civillians here and there. Typical, this nut-jobs actions have only served to offer some sort of twisted legitimacy to the Palestinian militants. His actions have also served to strenghten the political power of Hamas and further damage the PLO.

[shrike]

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon condemned the attack, calling it "a reprehensible act of a bloodthirsty Jewish terrorist who sought to attack innocent Israeli citizens."

I agree with Sharon on this one.

We bring our terrorists to justice contrary to Palestinians do nothing to stop them or to bring them to justice. The Palestinians glorifying their terrorists and make them heroes in the eyes of the children so that next generation of suicide bomber will grow up.

As per usual, militant settlers serve only to undermine the Israeli state, creating more violence and giving more ammunition to Hamas at al, who lets face it don't need any justification to blow up a few jewish civillians here and there. Typical, this nut-jobs actions have only servedyh to offer some sort of twisted legitimacy to the Palestinian militants. His actions have also served to strenghten the political power of Hamas and further damage the PLO.

The terrorists don't need any justification to commit their terror acts. They will do every time when they have possibility .For example in the middle of cease fire the Islam Jihad committed suicide bombing in Netaniya killing 4 civilians.
Btw This soldiers was a deserter so his weapon should have been taken by his commanders. I hope they going to pay for that mistake

[Trotsky]

Quote by: shrike The terrorists don't need any justification to commit their terror acts. They will do every time when they have possibility .For example in the middle of cease fire the Islam Jihad committed suicide bombing in Netaniya killing 4 civilians. Btw This soldiers was a deserter so his weapon should have been taken by his commanders. I hope they going to pay for that mistake

Like I said, they (Hamas, Islamia, Islamic Jihad, Al Asqa Martyrs et el) don't need a reason to blow people up, this twat has betrayed his own people and given the murderers in Hamas something to focus even more hatred on, given them a perverted sense of justification for what they do.

[righthand]

Quote by: shrike I agree with Sharon on this one. We bring our terrorists to justice contrary to Palestinians do nothing to stop them or to bring them to justice. The Palestinians glorifying their terrorists and make them heroes in the eyes of the children so that next generation of suicide bomber will grow up. The terrorists don't need any justification to commit their terror acts. They will do every time when they have possibility .For example in the middle of cease fire the Islam Jihad committed suicide bombing in Netaniya killing 4 civilians. Btw This soldiers was a deserter so his weapon should have been taken by his commanders. I hope they going to pay for that mistake

Guardian...Natan-Zada's father said he deserted his army unit in protest after he was ordered to help prepare for the pullout and moved to Tapuah, an extremist West Bank settlement.

Is strange that if he had actually deserted that

Guardian...Natan-Zada is also to be buried Friday in a civilian service, after the Ministry of Defense overturned the army's decision to accord him a military funeral without honors, the military said.

Military funeral for a deserter? The IDF didn't see him as a deserter. Somethings not right here. Something is rotten in the State of....

Why is this important? WHEN DID THIS MAN BECOME A TERRORIST? Choices -
1. If and when he left the army. AWOL doesn't usually equal terrorist.
2. When he made the decision to do what he did. If at the last moment he changed his mind, then surely he would be only a potential terrorist. If that's a terrorist then it might apply to most of the IDF.
3. When he fired his gun, killing the driver. If he had not subsequently died, would he still be labeled a terrorist.
4. When he died. This is my best bet. He now had no value to the State. When the Prime Minister was assassinated, I do not remember the assassin being treated as a terrorist. Was it because he survived.
5. When Sharon said he was a terrorist. Well he should know. He has plenty of personal experience.
6. Unknown. Have a poll and find out.

Now a little more detail on this killing.

Guardian "Israeli Police Brace for Possible Riots" ...Friday August 5, 2005 11:01 AM By KRISTEN STEVENS, Associated Press Writer http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...191584,00.html When the bus entered a Shfaram neighborhood, Natan-Zada opened fire on the driver, killing him instantly, witnesses said. The bus rolled on for 20 yards until it hit a parked car and ground to a halt, Haaretz said. Natan-Zada continued shooting inside the bus, which was carrying about 20 passengers. He emptied an entire magazine. When he tried loading a new magazine, one of the passengers jumped him. Ahkim Janhwi told Israel Radio he wrestled the attacker to the ground and disarmed him - only to be attacked by a confused crowd who thought he was the gunman. When the gunfire erupted ``I immediately lay down between the seats,'' Janhwi said. ``I thought about everybody who is important to me and who I'm important to, and I thought I was a goner. I closed my eyes and heard his footsteps getting closer to me. People who boarded the bus beat Natan-Zada to death, media reports said. Television stations reported Thursday he was attacked with iron bars and stones. For hours, until the crowd was subdued, the gunman's body lay on the floor of the bus, his head covered with a black plastic bag. His shirtless upper torso was heavily bruised and bloodied. Police were looking for the people who killed the soldier, Army Radio said. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon issued a statement condemning the attack as ``a despicable act by a bloodthirsty terrorist.'' He called for calm.

This man was no different than a suicide bomber. He must have known that death was to be expected after the bullets ran out. Had he expectations of being a hero if he survived.

Surely the people who dispatched him were protecting their lives if he still had any means of killing or not. Would you risk it? If the police are "looking for the people who killed the soldier" very hard then there will be more deaths.

Don't let this misguided man and the totally innocent passengers lives be in vain. Try on this occasion to see it from the other sides point of view. Virtually impossible usually, but maybe in the circumstances this time.

You may be interested in the "Israel ranks among most corrupt in West" thread or "Where do your Tax Dollars Go???"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/608423.html
Israel ranks among most corrupt in West

[shrike]

Military funeral for a deserter? The IDF didn't see him as a deserter. Somethings not right here. Something is rotten in the State of....

He will not receive Military funeral and not because he is a deserter (i am not sure in deserts entitled for that) but because he is a terrorist so he will be buried in civil cemetery
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...123087,00.html
So your argument is void.

3. When he fired his gun, killing the driver. If he had not subsequently died, would he still be labeled a terrorist

Yes anyone who kills on purpose because of Ideology civilian population is terrorist according to my definition.

When Sharon said he was a terrorist. Well he should know. He has plenty of personal experience.

I don't know what are talking about Sharon has never gave order to kill civilian population on purpose.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike We bring our terrorists to justice contrary to Palestinians

What happened to the 'dozer driver that crushed Rachel Corrie to blood?

[shrike]

What happened to the 'dozer driver that crushed Rachel Corrie to blood?

Is there proof it was on purpose as you claim.There much controversy about this incedent.

[bishop]

Quote by: shrike We bring our terrorists to justice contrary to Palestinians do nothing to stop them or to bring them to justice.

bullshit.. israeli terrorists have killed at least 3 times more innocent civilians than palestinians have.. they've done things like execute 95 year old women, demolish their homes, destroy their farmland.. the latter two are sponsored by the israeli state, which doesn't give a shit about the civilians it kills - especially when so many israeli apologists, like shrike, are ready to excuse whatever action the IDF takes.. the israeli response in cases of abuse waged by individual soldiers, if any, is a pitiful slap on the wrists. israelis fire friggin tank shells into civilians, and somehow to isreal's apologists, that somehow isn't terrorism.. the duplicity is amazing.

the israelis are no better than the palestinians. both sides look to inflict terror, via killing civilians, as a way to defeat the other side. and both sides excuse their own usage of terrorism as self-defense. these scumbags deserve each other imo.

[RickSp]

What this guy did was no worse than what the IDF typically does. The difference was the IDF gets away with it and is paid billions in US taxpayer support.

[Mia]

Quote by: Trotsky BBC Article here As per usual, militant settlers serve only to undermine the Israeli state, creating more violence and giving more ammunition to Hamas at al, who lets face it don't need any justification to blow up a few jewish civillians here and there. Typical, this nut-jobs actions have only served to offer some sort of twisted legitimacy to the Palestinian militants. His actions have also served to strenghten the political power of Hamas and further damage the PLO.

Amazing that Sharon would be honest and call the man a terrorist. Despite what Shrike would have us believe, this is not the norm.

Neither the US or Israel ever call it's own terrorists, only the other 'side'

I'm I'm wrong, Shrike, please post the evidence of Israel calling it's own terrorists, or doing anything really other than saying 'we have a right to defend ourselves'.

[Mia]

Quote by: shrike Is there proof it was on purpose as you claim.There much controversy about this incedent.

There's controvery about everything - were it to go to an honest court, the overwhelming evidence would show that is was done knowingly.

[Mia]

Quote by: RickSp What this guy did was no worse than what the IDF typically does. The difference was the IDF gets away with it and is paid billions in US taxpayer support.

Exactly. This one must have gotten too much press to deny as usual. Like the Rafah incident.

When it's played over and over on CNN and other channels, there is no choice. It's never been done out of honor.

[shrike]

israeli terrorists have killed at least 3 times more innocent civilians than palestinians have..

I don't say that Israel doesn't kills civilians but it never does it on purpose and where there is no other option. For example if you know the location of suicide bomber that going to blow in hour in the middle of your city want you act against him even there is a risk that civilians of the enemy might die? And because it's very hard dilemma the fence was built to prevent that.

they've done things like execute 95 year old women, demolish their homes, destroy their farmland

Israel don't demolish homes of simple civilians but of terrorist and suicide bomber anyway it didn't do so in the last year.
That would be no need to destroy farmland if the Palestinians would not use it as a base to hurt civilians. So what are you prefer the life of civilians or some farmland?

the israeli response in cases of abuse waged by individual soldiers, if any, is a pitiful slap on the wrists

Could you bring any example of that? Of course there some rogue soldiers and wrong decisions by local commanders in field but there is no Israeli policy to kill civilians contrary to Palestinians.

israelis fire friggin tank shells into civilians, and somehow to isreal's apologists, that somehow isn't terrorism..

Because it was a mistake a terrible one I must say but if you dont see difference between mistake and action that was done on purpose i am sorry for you.

I'm I'm wrong, Shrike, please post the evidence of Israel calling it's own terrorists, or doing anything really other than saying 'we have a right to defend ourselves'.

What are you talking about Sharon called that man terrorist/? I really don't understand want you want to say by this.

There's controvery about everything - were it to go to an honest court, the overwhelming evidence would show that is was done knowingly

How do you know? Did you read all the reports? Did you watch the Video? Or for you Israel is automatically the guilty part?

[jose]

Quote by: shrike Yes anyone who kills on purpose because of Ideology civilian population is terrorist according to my definition. I don't know what are talking about Sharon has never gave order to kill civilian population on purpose.

the leader ariel sharon of
Unit 101 undertook a series of retaliatory raids against Palestinians and neighboring Arab states that helped bolster Israeli morale and fortify its deterrent image. However, the unit was also criticized for targeting civilians as well as Arab soldiers, resulting in the widely condemned Qibya massacre in the fall of 1953, in which more than sixty Jordanian civilians were killed in an attack on their village.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon
by my definition hes taken part in acts of terror

[shrike]

image. However, the unit was also criticized for targeting civilians as well as Arab soldiers, resulting in the widely condemned Qibya massacre in the fall of 1953, in which more than sixty Jordanian civilians were killed in an attack on their village.

Do you have some proof that he knew that there is civilians on those houses because when he approached the village he saw that all civilians are fled and the village is deserted.
There was 60 people out 2700 were left hiding in their houses you couldn't spot them.

[jose]

Quote by: shrike I don't say that Israel doesn't kills civilians but it never does it on purpose and where there is no other option. Could you bring any example of that? Of course there some rogue soldiers and wrong decisions by local commanders in field but there is no Israeli policy to kill civilians contrary to Palestinians.

Two Israeli soldiers have alleged that they were ordered to carry out revenge attacks on Palespolice after six of their comrades were killed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4605899.stm




The BBC has released a remarkable film about the killing of three international peace activists by the Israeli army in the occupied Gaza Strip. Documentary evidence provided in the film strongly suggests that the American Rachel Corrie - and two British activists - were murdered.

Last spring, within a period of seven weeks, one British and one American peace activist were killed by the Israeli army in Rafah, a Palestinian town at the southern end of the occupied Gaza Strip. A second Briton was shot in the head leaving him brain-dead. In two of the cases the Israeli army is being blamed for murder; the third is considered "attempted murder."http://www.realnews247.com/bbc_rachel_corrie_report.htm

[jose]

Quote by: shrike Do you have some proof that he knew that there is civilians on those houses because when he approached the village he saw that all civilians are fled and the village is deserted. There was 60 people out 2700 were left hiding in their houses you couldn't spot them.

"The orders were utterly clear: Qibya was to be an example for everyone". Sharon said that he thought the houses were empty and that the unit checked all houses before detonating the explosives. In his autobiography Warrior (1987) he wrote:

"I couldn't believe my ears. As I went back over each step of the operation, I began to understand what must have happened. For years Israeli reprisal raids had never succeeded in doing more than blowing up a few outlying buildings, if that. Expecting the same, some Arab families must have stayed in their houses rather than running away. In those big stone houses... some could easily have hidden in the cellars and back rooms, keeping quiet when the paratroopers went in to check and yell out a warning. The result was this tragedy that had happened".
Benny Morris expresses doubt in this claim, considering the nature of the orders Unit 101 received. He also points to the fact that US, UN and Arab Legion reports indicates that villagers were killed before the demolition of the houses began.

The UN observer who inspected the scene, Major General Vagn Bennike, chief of staff of the U.N. Truce Supervision Organization (which investigated the scene the next day) said: "one story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre

Ariel Sharon later wrote in his diary that he received orders to inflict heavy damage on the inhabitants of Qibya. ON THE INHABITANTS

[shrike]

Ariel Sharon later wrote in his diary that he received orders to inflict heavy damage on the inhabitants of Qibya. ON THE INHABITANTS

He wrote that he only thought about that after what happaned .Again no proof that he knew

Two Israeli soldiers have alleged that they were ordered to carry out revenge attacks on Palespolice after six of their comrades were killed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4605899.stm

From the article:
. [

The unnamed soldiers made the charges, which relate to events three years ago, to an organisation which gathers evidence on Israeli army abuses.

Give a brake do you really believe that is a credible source? And why he reported it only after three years and not right away so the proper investigation could be carried out. Anyway I don't deny that some incidents might happen and it should be prosecuted according to law but there is no Israeli policy to kill civilians on purpose.

The unnamed soldiers made the charges, which relate to events three years ago, to an organisation which gathers evidence on Israeli army abuses.

Give me a breake do you really consider it a credible source.And why he not spoked earlier and not after three years so this incedent could be properly invistigated.anyway i am dont deny that some things happen but like i said there is no policy to kill civilians on purpose.
Btw BBC is known for their anti-Israeli bias

[shrike]

...

[jose]

heres the link again http://www.realnews247.com/bbc_rachel_corrie_report.htm

why do you put quotation marks around peace as in ¨peace¨activists?