Israeli bus killer lynched by mob

[shrike]

I have NO information as to the circumstances of these men's death. I suspicion is that they were EXECUTED like the murder of the Brazilian. There is NO evidence that they were involved in terrorist activity at the time of their execution. My suspicion is they died for the misplaced pain of the illegal settlers being moved to another illegal site at US taxpayers expense. This is my opinion based on experience and observation.

Do you have any proof or its just your crazy speculation because Israel is always guilty for you?

The operation began when soldiers from the elite Duvdevan unit surrounded a coffee shop where the suspects, some of them armed, were sitting. Soldiers ordered the men to surrender, firing a warning shot in the air. Following the warning, the suspects tried to flee, and several people, including Palestinians not initially involved in the exchange, began firing at the IDF troops from several directions. Soldiers returned fire, killing four Palestinians on the spot. According to the IDF, the Palestinians hurt in the exchange were part of the Islamic Jihad terror infrastructure responsible for the last suicide bombings in Tel Aviv and Netanya

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...132894,00.html
If you have your own line of events go ahead and present it.

[jose]

from your link: However, Palestinian sources in Tul Karem said two of the five people killed were 14-year-old boys. Another victim was 18-years-old, they said, and added that only two of those killed were members of terror groups.

soldiers start shooting and then people are
¨shot while trying to escape¨now where have i heard that before?

[shrike]

from your link: However, Palestinian sources in Tul Karem said two of the five people killed were 14-year-old boys. Another victim was 18-years-old, they said, and added that only two of those killed were members of terror groups.

You chose to what party to believe.Palestinian known for their exaggeration for example take the Jenin massacare that never happaned also take a look at that link
http://honestreporting.com/articles/..._Witnesses.asp

soldiers start shooting and then people are

So you say Army/Police shouldnt shoot fugitive criminals?

[Matt W]

So you say Army/Police shouldnt shoot fugitive criminals?

Indeed they shouldn't. Trial by jury is the civilised norm.

By the way, shrike, I'm honestly not trying to bait you or anything, but what's your take on the fact that the Israeli Arab relatives won't receive the same stipends that Jewish victims of terrorism get?

Families of Israeli Arabs shot dead on a bus in Galilee are not considered terrorism victims because their killer was Jewish, the defence ministry says. Under Israeli law, only attacks by "enemies of Israel" are considered terrorism, the ministry said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4198754.stm

[shrike]

Indeed they shouldn't. Trial by jury is the civilised norm.

So if the police ask the criminal to stop and surrender and instead he start shooting and running so you say let him go and do more crimes?

By the way, shrike, I'm honestly not trying to bait you or anything, but what's your take on the fact that the Israeli Arab relatives won't receive the same stipends that Jewish victims of terrorism get?

If its a truth i think its wrong becouse any terrorist is enemy of Israel.I think they should go to the court If the state dont want to obey the law

[Matt W]

If its a truth

It is. The Israeli MoD said so, and the BBC is generally acknowleged as being a fair and accurate source, even by it's most grudging opponents. The trouble is, it's enshrined in Israeli Law. Not good.

So if the police ask the criminal to stop and surrender and instead he start shooting and running so you say let him go and do more crimes?

No, thank you for putting words in my mouth. IF that is what happened - and given that both Israeli and Palestinian sources are prone to over-exagerration - then it is surely easy for Israeli police to back off and track the militant/criminal/whatever by helicopter until he's in a location where he can be forced to surrender or, if it comes to shooting him, do so in an area where innocents are unlikely to be killed?

[shrike]

...

The trouble is, it's enshrined in Israeli Law. Not good

What enshrined in Israeli law?The law states "enemy of Israel" it doesnt specify nation or anything like this so as i said they have good case for the court .

then it is surely easy for Israeli police to back off and track the militant/criminal/whatever by helicopter until he's in a location where he can be forced to surrender or, if it comes to shooting him, do so in an area where innocents are unlikely to be killed?

So they run in to the house and know you have to storm a house in the middle of hostile city.There is no magic tactic that filter only terrorist and criminals.Also the refuge camp its very dense place so it hard to find open place with no civilians espacially when terrorist use them as human shields they have no reason to flee they know the Israelis probably not shot if there a lot of civilians nearby.

[Matt W]

*shrugs*

I take it by your silence you agree?

I mean, this is what pretty much every other police force in the Western world does....

[shrike]

read my post i just hited submit button by accident

[Matt W]

Ah, sorry.

Mmm. Yes, it is a very difficult situation - but if the IDF are in Palestinian-administered territory, surely the sensible way to handle things is to get the PA to arrest/kill the subjects? Not only does such a move increase the 'normalisation' of Israeli-Palestinian relationships, but it avoids giving the extremists and those who oppose the peace process further ammunition and coverage.

[shrike]

Mmm. Yes, it is a very difficult situation - but if the IDF are in Palestinian-administered territory, surely the sensible way to handle things is to get the PA to arrest/kill the subjects? Not only does such a move increase the 'normalisation' of Israeli-Palestinian relationships, but it avoids giving the extremists and those who oppose the peace process further ammunition and coverage.

It would be perfect situation for Israel but PA either did not want because it will crumple their support among Palestinians and also they use terror act as mean of pressure on Israel or cant do it because hamas and Jihad are too strong also PA(FATAH) militants participate in terrorism themselves so they should first clean the terrorist that are with in the organization
Sadly they don't do it so Israel have no other choice but to clean the terrorist in PA territories..

[Matt W]

If you don't give them incentives to clean up Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and the like, then they won't do it. Trust has to start somewhere, or you will constantly be looking over your shoulders for rockets from across the border. Paranoia is not the way to run a state.

[ise]

Kafr Qasim massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Kafr Qasim massacre took place in the Israeli Arab village of Kafr Qasim situated on the Green Line, at that time, the de facto border between Israel and Jordan on October 29, 1956. It was carried out by the Israel Border Police (MAGAV) and resulted in 48 Arab civilians dead, including 6 women and 23 children aged 8-17. Arab sources usually give the death toll as 49, as they include the unborn child of one of the women.

The border policemen who were involved in the shooting were brought to trial and some served short prison sentences. The case established an important legal principle on when security personnel should obey illegal orders.

From 1949 to 1966, Arab citizens were regarded by Israel as a hostile population, and major Arab population centers were governed by military administrations divided into several districts. As such, several battalions of the Israeli Border Police, under the command of IDF brigade commander Colonel Issachar Shadmi, were ordered to prepare the defense of a section close to the border officially known as the Central District, and colloquially as the "Little Triangle". It contained seven villages close to the border, not far from Tel Aviv, where about 40,000 Israeli Arab citizens lived. It was regarded as a strategically weak point by Israel, and regularly patrolled by soldiers to halt infiltration of fedayeen and other Arabs across the border.

Malinki issued a similar order to the reserve forces attached to his battalion, shortly before the curfew was enforced:

"No inhabitants shall be allowed to leave his home during the curfew. Anyone leaving his home shall be shot; there shall be no arrests."

It took two months of lobbying by Communists Knesset Members and the press before the government lifted the media blackout imposed by David Ben Gurion. Meanwhile, the government had started to conduct an internal inquiry. To limit publicity, a military cordon was maintained around the village for months, preventing journalists from approaching

The incident was partly responsible for gradual changes in Israel's policy toward Arab citizens of Israel. By 1966, the military administration was abolished.

The townspeople of Kafr Qasim annually observe the massacre and a commemorative memorial was raised in the village. A museum dealing with the events was opened on October 29, 2006.?

[ise]

Quote by: ise Kafr Qasim massacre From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The tame version.

What strikes me is how easy the IDF found it to deliberately murder obvious workers in their fields without anyone querying the orders. Was this not the heart of the trails of the Nazi leaders at Nurenburg? Is it because they were now well practiced at eliminating these vermin Arabs by then? The October 29, 1956 massacre was not the first suffered at the IDF hands.

1. On October 29, 1948, when Israeli brigades captured the village of Safsaf. The known details of the massacre come to us via several contemporary second-hand Zionist reports and via Arab oral history. Yosef Nachmani, a senior officer in the Haganah (and later the director of the Jewish National Fund in Eastern Galilee), recorded in his diary what he was told by Immanuel Friedman, a representative of the Minority Affairs ministry: In Safsaf, after … the inhabitants had raised a white flag, the [soldiers] collected and separated the men and women, tied the hands of fifty-sixty fellahin [peasants] and shot and killed them and buried them in a pit. Also, they raped several women… (quoted in Zertal, 2005, p. 171; see also Morris, 2005, p. 500). Moshe Erem reported on the massacre to a meeting of the Mapam Political Committee but his words were censored from the minutes. According to the notes taken by another person present, Erem spoke of: Safsaf 52 men tied together with a rope. Pushed down a well and shot. 10 killed. Women pleaded for mercy. 3 cases of rape . . . . A girl of 14 raped. Another four killed (Morris, 2004, p. 500). These accounts in broad detail are supported by Palestinian witnesses who told their stories to historians.

2. On October 29, 1948 (same day and year of above massacre), the Arab town al-Dawayima was conquered by Israeli terrorist groups known as Irgun and Lehi. An unnamed Israeli soldier told this version: “The first wave of conquerors killed about 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. The children they killed by breaking their heads with sticks. There was not a house without dead.” Meron Benvenisti writes: Atrocities and acts of brutality characterised this period: summary executions, rape, blowing up houses along with their occupants, looting and plundering, and leaving hundreds of villages to their own devices in the fields, without food or water. The most serious atrocities were committed in the village of Al-Dawayima on the western slopes of the Hebron Highlands. This large village, with a population of some 3,500 was taken on 29 October, 1948. The occupying forces indiscriminately killed between 80 and 100 males villagers, blew up houses together with their occupants, murdered women and children, and committed rape. According to eyewitness testimony, these acts were committed “not in the heat of battle and inflamed passions, but out of a system of expulsion and destruction. The fewer Arabs remained — the better.”

3. On October 29, 1956, during the Suez Crisis, Israeli Border Police waited at the entrance to the town of Kafr Qasem. 43 inhabitants were massacred in cold blood by the army as they returned from work. Their crime was violating a curfew they did not know about. On Nov 11, 1956, Prime Minister Ben Gurion told the cabinet about the Kfar Qasim massacre. He said: “We have a wonderful army, but it appears that sometimes there are incidents and circumstances that make people lose their minds.” On March 28, 2001, Ha’aretz published some excerpts from this cabinet meeting.

Should the recent murder of Lebanese children surprise us now. Zionist pets rack higher than innocent Arab children.

[shrike]

These accounts in broad detail are supported by Palestinian witnesses who told their stories to historians.

LOL
Yes Palestinian terrorists are known for staging massaceres.

allegations that riots and unrest did not start until the press arrived[3] alleged falsification of the death of Muhammad al-Durrah in September, 2000[4] fabricated characters (such as Ouze Merham) and fake quotations in Arab media[5] allegedly staged photographs following the battle of Jenin in 2002[6] allegedly staged funeral processions and casualties[7]

Pallywood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Jenin "massacare" has revealed their true intentions.

[ise]

Yes, staged massacres. Is that the appropriate response. Well every other excuse and lie has been used. Keep on digging. Expand some more on this crap.

So now they were not dead at all? So the inquiries and funerals etc were all Pallywood. You really are a little sh__. Why didn't you have the sense to take the 50th anniversary on the chin and keep your trap shut. You cannot resist even the most obvious of pitfalls were you just cannot win. You remind me so much of the vicious deceitful scorpion killing the trusting frog so that they will both die in the river. You cannot change your nature even when it's in your best interest to do so. Will you ever learn? NO!

Yes, the Zionist scorpion and the Arab frog, both together, to die together because as the scorpion said "I could not help myself. It is my nature" as they both sank beneath the water. And water is appropriate as it is the stealing of Arab water that is the kernel of this sorry saga.

Who was caught reporting a thread?

[shrike]

Who was caught reporting a thread?

I am and I will continue to report until you stop your personal attacks. Because it gives a forum a bad name and derail a debate. Personality of the debater has nothing to do with the argument presented.

[rmnunez]

anyone who kills on purpose because of Ideology civilian population is terrorist according to my definition.

Killing for ideological reasons is not terrorism, it takes more. The terrorist kills to bring about political change. Ideology seeks political change, but most don't advocate killing to bring it about.

[ise]

We killed police for revenge, Israeli soldiers confess
By Donald Macintyre ...in Jerusalem

Two Israeli soldiers have come forward to describe how they took part in what they say was an officially ordered "revenge" operation to kill Palestinian police officers ­ among them several unarmed men. In graphic testimony, one soldier has confessed that he "really enjoyed" a chase in which he shot an unarmed Palestinian in the head who was trying to escape during a series of reprisal raids ordered the day after the killing of six Israeli soldiers in an ambush by militant gunmen three years ago.

[PHP]"The idea was simply to kill them all. Whenever they arrived, we would kill them, regardless whether [they were] armed or not. If they were Palestinian policemen, they were to be shot. The order was given and our six opened fire."[/PHP]The soldier, from the Yael Reconnaissance Troop, said that their [naval] squad commander had told them: [PHP]"We are going to kill six Palestinian policemen somewhere, revenging our six they took down". He added: "On my question "what did they do?" the answer was there was a suspicion that the terrorist who killed our six came through that [Palestinian] checkpoint. Suspicion, but no concrete evidence. But I was told: "it does not matter; they took six of ours, and we are going to take six of theirs."[/PHP][PHP]"Later we understood, that not one of them ... was armed." [/PHP]

This was the first inside account of such an operation, the IDF soldiers say they were ordered by their commanders to "liquidate" Palestinian police officers even though they were given no evidence they had been involved in the killing of the Israelis or even armed. Cold blooded executions.

[ise]

Quote by: Mia Amazing that Sharon would be honest and call the man a terrorist. Despite what Shrike would have us believe, this is not the norm. Neither the US or Israel ever call it's own terrorists, only the other 'side' I'm I'm wrong, Shrike, please post the evidence of Israel calling it's own terrorists, or doing anything really other than saying 'we have a right to defend ourselves'.

Yes, you were wrong. I know, it is extraordinary. Sharon, someone who would recognize a terrorist, said "a reprehensible act by a bloodthirsty Jewish terrorist who sought to attack innocent Israeli citizens."

However, under Israeli law, only attacks by "enemies of Israel" are considered terrorists, and so Natan-Zada has not been legally recognised as a terrorist nor the people he killed as victims of terrorism (leading to calls for a change in Israeli law)

However, under Israeli law, only attacks by "enemies of Israel" are considered terrorists, and so Natan-Zada has not been legally recognised as a terrorist nor the people he killed as victims of terrorism (leading to calls for a change in Israeli law) (worth repeating)

Only a terrorist state like Israel would have such pro-terrorist LAWS. But do remember the origins of this state. Terrorism was its modes operandi. As John Dugard, Special Rapporteur for the UN on the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, said very recently, [PHP]Israel itself had two former Prime Ministers
who were considered as "terrorists" by some. [/PHP] Also, this is the last 'democratic' state to assassinate its own Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin the last peaceful Israeli leader. A state where the supposed assassin, Yigal Amir and follower of Meir Kahane, is a hero with a sizable number of Zionist citizens.

Such incidents lead to further Zionist terrorist non-acts. Asher Weisgan, a 40-year old Israeli bus-driver, shot and killed four Palestinians and injured two others in Shiloh. He said, "I'm not sorry for what I did." Ariel Sharon said of the attack, "I view this act of Jewish terror, which was aimed at innocent Palestinians with the twisted thinking that it would stop the disengagement plan, very gravely." Just so such Zionist hot air, with words as hollow as most of his other pronouncements. But a long long history of state terrorism proves that it works.

Remember, under Israeli law, only attacks by "enemies of Israel" are considered terrorists, and so Zionist killers cannot be legally recognised as terrorists nor the people they killed as victims of terrorism. (worth repeating, again)