US challenged over 'secret jails'

[righthand]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4743485.stm

Two Yemeni men claim they were held in secret, underground US jails for more than 18 months without being charged, Amnesty International has said. The human rights group has called on the US to reveal details of the alleged secret detention of suspects abroad. Amnesty fears the case is part of a "much broader picture" in which the US holds prisoners at secret locations. The US has not responded to the claims, but the head of the CIA recently said the agency does not use torture. Porter Goss said in testimony to the US Senate torture was neither professional nor productive. Beaten on feet In the new report, Amnesty has urged the US to reveal where its alleged secret detention facilities are, stop using them and name the detainees held there. The two Yemeni men, Muhammad Faraj Ahmed Bashmilah and Salah Nasser Salim Ali, were arrested separately but reported almost identical experiences to Amnesty.

Can it get any worse for george? He may need an even longer holiday at this rate. What's left. Rove is gay, Bolton is a paedophile, george is back on the drink, his wife is a full time comedian, Halliburton is bust, Rummy is joining the navy. I'd believe anything ABOUT them now. Now I wouldn't believe a prayer out of their mouths. I'm not gone mad. What a legacy george will leave behind. Yes, he will be long remembered after his father is forgotten. Now that's Hitler, Stalin, Mao and george, all great military leaders.

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[Whodoe!]

If Bush were as bad as is claimed, everyone in the opposition would be held in secret jails.

[Trotsky]

Don't put Dubya in the same breath as his father. GWB has some great advisors around him....you may not agree with them but they've managed to get a bumbling idiot elected twice and they are obviously intelligent people.
George sr was a very intelligent man, who deserves a lot more credit than he'll ever get.
Also I'll think you'll find that Mao and Stalin were not military leaders, they just let the generals win the battle, execute them (or In Mao's case kill them, cook them and eat them) and then take the credit for the Military victories.

As for Amnesty International, I don't like them or believe 80% of what they have to say. But with regard to secret detentions centres, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the coalition forces had such centres.

[righthand]

Quote by: Trotsky Don't put Dubya in the same breath as his father. GWB has some great advisers around him....you may not agree with them but they've managed to get a bumbling idiot elected twice and they are obviously intelligent people. George sr was a very intelligent man, who deserves a lot more credit than he'll ever get. Also I'll think you'll find that Mao and Stalin were not military leaders, they just let the generals win the battle, execute them (or In Mao's case kill them, cook them and eat them) and then take the credit for the Military victories.

"George sr was a very intelligent man, who deserves a lot more credit than he'll ever get." Yes, it would been and the expected thing after the success on the Allies to continue to Baghdad then. Now if it was the TV images of the burnt corpses on that killing road that caused the halt, we may never know. I do remember the very reasoned discussions about who could replace Saddam. Then and now, I believe that George Sr got it right. Except for junior. Whether it just to beat his dad or his notion to put a perceived 'wrong' right, neither have any meaning in the lives lost daily. So no matter how this pans out, George Sr has proved beyond doubt that Sr was right and Jr never will get it right. That probably causes Jr more loss of sleep than the blood of his young men. What would they say to George if they could get within an asses roar of him. Certainly they will not be seeing him at their funerals.

So taking George Sr as our lead, what is the solution to the Iraqi problem? The solution in the past always has been a 'strong man' and native. Only one candidate, right. You've got it in one. Ask Saddam if he would help out as a puppet leader in return for not stretching his neck. This would fit in more with the old style US solution to it's banana republics. Let's forget all this democracy guff and get back to real US style democracy - hire the biggest crook in town. I would guarantee peace in a week. Set a crook to catch a crook. Will it happen? No chance. Yet I would love to here the administration answer against the simple logic of George Sr. Of course, Senior would have to back it. Imagine, "now junior, this is how it is. I'm going to save your hide. Bend over. You need a good lashing. Daddy knows best and never forget it. And send that Rummy up to me next. He needs a good scre*ing. Barbara, grab a stick." Think of the advantages for George Jr. First he gets back on Daddy's Christmas list. Then he gets off the 'badboy' list. That's the same list as Hitler, and Stalin - he got off it when he let his generals fight. The 'Worst Military Leaders in History' list. Nowadays it's called the 'Slam Dunk' or the 'Bring it on' list.

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[righthand]

Quote by: Whodoe! If Bush were as bad as is claimed, everyone in the opposition would be held in secret jails.

What planet!

[center]HUMAN RIGHTS NEWS CRUEL Confinement of ‘Enemy Combatant’ in United States Complaint Provides First Look at Isolation and Abuse [/center] (New York, August 8, 2005)—A lawsuit filed today against U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld reveals the gratuitous cruelty inflicted on a foreign student held without charges for more than two years as an “enemy combatant” in a South Carolina naval brig, Human Rights Watch said. Although three men have been confined in the United States after being designated “enemy combatants” by President George Bush, the complaint by Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri provides the first look into the treatment of any of them in military custody. Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, a citizen of Qatar who had been studying in Peoria, Illinois, before his arrest, asked the federal district court in South Carolina to declare unconstitutional the severe and unnecessary deprivations and restrictions to which he has been subjected since he was placed in military custody in June 2003. Al-Marri had already initiated habeas proceedings challenging the legality of his detention as an enemy combatant. That case continues. “It is bad enough that al-Marri has been held indefinitely without charges and incommunicado,” said Jamie Fellner, director of Human Rights Watch’s U.S. Program. “Now we learn that his life in the brig has also been one of cruelty and petty vindictiveness. Whatever the Bush administration believes he has done or wanted to do, there’s no excuse for how they are treating him.” Al-Marri’s complaint describes virtually complete isolation from the world. He has been confined round the clock in a small cell with an opaque window covered with plastic. He has not been allowed to speak to his wife or five children. He is allowed no newspapers, magazines, books (other than the Koran), radio or television. He is allowed no personal property. His cell contains a steel bed, a sink and a toilet. During the day, the mattress on his bed has been removed. Out-of-cell time has been limited to three showers and three short periods of solitary recreation a week—but al-Marri has frequently been denied that out-of-cell time. Once he went 60 days without being permitted to leave his cell at all. When bad weather prevents him from going outside, he must remain in hand cuffs and leg irons during his indoor recreation. Leg irons and handcuffs are placed on him when he goes to the shower.

Is there no end to prisoner abuse in US prisons. I personally to not believe that the American people are cruel by nature, but these practices started somewhere.

Is this racism also. That is not new but was fading in America. You see the most awful crimes in the US. I think you will reap the whirlwind within ten years for what your guards are doing to prisoners. Maybe this is common practice already in civilian prison.