14 US Marines killed in Western Iraq

[righthand]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/me...ain/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A roadside bomb blast killed 14 Marines and a civilian interpreter Wednesday as they rode in a vehicle near Haditha, Iraq, U.S. military officials said. The military said the bomb struck the amphibious assault vehicle about 1 mile (about 2 kilometers) south of Haditha, along the Euphrates River about 135 miles northwest of Baghdad. The military said one Marine was wounded. On Monday, six Marine sniper team members were killed in a firefight near the same city and a Marine was killed in nearby Hit. Twenty-one Marines have been killed in the region in three days. The number of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war stands at 1,820, according to U.S. military reports. All 21 Marines who were killed Monday and Wednesday were assigned to Regimental Combat Team 2, part of the 2nd Marine Division, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force. Haditha and Hit are Sunni Arab cities along the Euphrates River about 135 miles (217 kilometers) and 95 miles (152 kilometers) northwest of Baghdad, respectively. U.S. and Iraqi troops recently have been trying to clear insurgents out of both cities.

WHY?

At least seven marines were killed on Monday in the same area of Iraq. The US military said that the seven died in two separate attacks. But Ansar al-Sunna, an extremist group linked with the al-Qaeda network, said in an internet statement posted today that it had killed eight Marines and captured a ninth in an ambush near Haditha. The group said it had killed some of the Marines by "slitting their throats" while others were shot. Today's killings brought the number of US military personnel killed in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion to 1,811, according to an AFP tally based on Pentagon figures.

I'm genuinely sorry for the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, children friends and lovers of these brave US servicemen. If there deaths had some purpose then you could believe their deaths were not in vain but...

Worse, I know that every dead US soldier means at least ten Iraqi, most of them innocent. Shame, shame, shame.

[dotcoma]

A real shame.

Righthand, do you not understand what sort of people are killing our soldiers? The same people who round up police and shoot them kneeling, and the same who drive car bombs indiscriminately into crowds. These are not Iraqis; these are monsters that need to be stopped from controlling a vital region of the Middle East. These soldiers did not die in vain as you say.

[RickSp]

Twenty one dead in three days in a needless war justified entirely on lies. Only in the bloody fantasies of war mongers could it be claimed that these fine Americans did not die in vain.

[Sonart]

Quote by: dotcoma Righthand, do you not understand what sort of people are killing our soldiers? The same people who round up police and shoot them kneeling, and the same who drive car bombs indiscriminately into crowds.

And you know this how?

Quote by: dotcoma These are not Iraqis; these are monsters that need to be stopped from controlling a vital region of the Middle East. These soldiers did not die in vain as you say.

Really? And what headway are we making in stopping them? Oh, that's right, they're in their "last throes". Two years ago I predicted that LBDubya and Rumsnamara would cobble together a few thousand half-assed Iraqi security forces, land on a Carrier somewhere to declare victory, tell the Iraqi people they're welcome, and get the hell out, leaving Iraq to collapse into civil war or the Islamic Republic of Iraq. Looks like we're on schedule to accomplish that.

Does a soldier die in vain if the Commander in Chief declares victory?

.

[dotcoma]

Rick, you sound like a parrot. If you are not going to add anything original can you just say "insert RickSP comment".

Sonart, I know this based on the news stories that feature the deaths of tons of Iraqi police in football stadiums, the market bombings, and the constant terror strikes by these thugs that always costs more Iraqi lives than American soldier lives. These monsters do not care who they hit.

Also, that victory thing Bush did was moronic, but what does that have to do with the fight to crush the insurgency in Iraq? It is just the same boring repetition that discredits the liberal cause by making it so predictable and pointless (insert halliburton, warmonger, or mission accomplished pun here).

I never said that the US would definitely win, but I also do not declare a loser in a war when we have no idea what could happen in the future. Who knows how the security forces will turn out, and who knows if we will get more help in this war to stabilize Iraq. Apparently the pessimistic folks who make me feel less and less "liberal" have it all figured out :rolleyes:

It seems like most of you would leave Iraq to the barbaric minority who seeks to control Iraq again and turn it into an anti-Western Islamic fundamentalist haven. Do you think the terror attacks in Iraq would just suddenly stop if we gave these idiots a victory?

Perhaps we should fight a more intelligent war, but this call for a pullout is ridiculous.

[righthand]

Quote by: DotComa A real shame. Righthand, do you not understand what sort of people are killing our soldiers? The same people who round up police and shoot them kneeling, and the same who drive car bombs indiscriminately into crowds. These are not Iraqis; these are monsters that need to be stopped from controlling a vital region of the Middle East. These soldiers did not die in vain as you say.

Debating the merits of this war at an emotional time like this is a bit macabre. I have no wish to cause any further hurt. Intellectual debate doesn't cut it at an emotional time like this.

There are a few thoughts that have being bothering me.
1. After the capture of Baghdad, US soldiers in the main stood about while Iraqis looted their hospital, schools, museums, anything. Why. Under Martial Law it is perfectly acceptable to shoot looters. It's one of the few times that summary execution is OK with me. Five, ten dead looters would have indicated to all that the US was in charge. Iraqis would have understood too. As it was it was downhill all the way thereafter. It was never explained why. It's clear Rumsfeld didn't send enough to do the job - yet he kept his - but it doesn't explain the inactivity of those there.
2. I learnt shortly after the US arrived in Iraqi about this 'blood' thing. If hurt or killed my brother/sister then family members are bound to revenge this whether the hurt/killing was justified or not. This had nothing got to do with religion. It's more jewish than anything, you know 'an eye for an eye'. Even if compensation is paid, family members are honour bound to seek revenge. This may explain why Iraqis are prepared to die. I know little more than this, but if I was facing Iraqis in a war zone, I'd find out if this is what drives them.
3. "The same people who round up police and shoot them kneeling." Well they certainly cannot imprison them. Even mentioning prison, probably inflames the situation more. If I was captured then I'd prefer a quick bullet in the neck to many of the alternatives.
4."The same who drive car bombs indiscriminately into crowds". Yes, but again what alternatives from their point of view. We must understand why they are prepared to die. And don't say religion or you'll never get close to the answer. They have had decades of example to follow from the Palestine's.
5. "Monsters that need to be stopped from controlling a vital region of the Middle East". It is only a vital region from an American perspective. Have you a right to the oil? Individually they benefit little before or since from oil. First they want the US out of Iraq. Do you think the administration ever intends leaving? I don't. They don't. US troops in Saudi Arabia were a prime reason for 9/11. If Rumsfeld said all troops were out in twelve months, would you believe him. Why should they then? List the countries the US left and list those it left without 'encouragement'. Much different?
6."These soldiers did not die in vain as you say". What purpose did their deaths serve? If their deaths had the slightest effect on this hard necked administration then I'd say their deaths were some good. No chance. It's a disgrace that no senior member of the administration responsible for putting them in harms way, will attend their burial. In a civilized nation, that is monstrous! But of course what would this commander-in-chief know about military protocol.

I hope that anything that I've written causes you no more sorrow at this time. I feel that if I did not say what I've said would be dishonouring their deaths more. My dearest wish is that their deaths would save further deaths. Not under comical george. Will you believe his platitudes to God and country. I cannot take him seriously any more.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dotcoma Rick, you sound like a parrot. If you are not going to add anything original can you just say "insert RickSP comment".

And you just continue with your delusional war mongering rants as more Americans die. Just like in Vietnam, your sort will keep talking about victory until we get thrown bodily out of the country. And all the while the body bags will be flown in in the dead of the night.

Interesting that your fearless leader goes on vacation again just as these 21 more Americans lose their lives.

[dotcoma]

Quote by: RickSp And you just continue with your delusional war mongering rants as more Americans die. Just like in Vietnam, your sort will keep talking about victory until we get thrown bodily out of the country. And all the while the body bags will be flown in in the dead of the night. Interesting that your fearless leader goes on vacation again just as these 21 more Americans lose their lives.

Rants? I am asking questions and making points. You are the one making rants with your empty talk of "war mongers, criminals, etc".

I am asking how some of you can doubt the justification for a continued fight against Islamic extremism with the amount of indiscriminate killing and violence being committed by these people. You would just leave the Middle East and let them build up their hate engine? Some of you really need to answer some questions. What sort of people are platning those roadside bombs, killing those Iraqi police/civilians, and hurting any efforts to improve the quality of life in Iraq (by hurting infrastructure repair efforts)? I look forward to hearing some answers.

Oh and stop spewing your typical BS at me. I am not a fan of Bush either but I am just not as delusional as the types who think if you ignore terrorism it will just go away.

[jose]

Quote by: dotcoma A real shame. Righthand, do you not understand what sort of people are killing our soldiers? The same people who round up police and shoot them kneeling, and the same who drive car bombs indiscriminately into crowds. These are not Iraqis; these are monsters that need to be stopped from controlling a vital region of the Middle East. These soldiers did not die in vain as you say.

these are the guys that are killing iraq´s? what goes around comes around i have no problem with that

[RickSp]

Quote by: dotcoma I am asking how some of you can doubt the justification for a continued fight against Islamic extremism with the amount of indiscriminate killing and violence being committed by these people. You would just leave the Middle East and let them build up their hate engine? Some of you really need to answer some questions. What sort of people are platning those roadside bombs, killing those Iraqi police/civilians, and hurting any efforts to improve the quality of life in Iraq (by hurting infrastructure repair efforts)? I look forward to hearing some answers. Oh and stop spewing your typical BS at me. I am not a fan of Bush either but I am just not as delusional as the types who think if you ignore terrorism it will just go away.

And you don't count the deaths of over 10,000 Iraqi civilians killed by the US during the invasion as "indiscriminate killing"? You and those like you are precisely the ones fueling the Islamic "hate engine" you go on about. How would you respond if this country was invaded by an Islamic army, with hundred of thousands killed and the country destroyed? Would you praise the invaders for "improving your quality of life."

Don't bother to reply. You have already justified going to war while lying to the "moronic masses" to use your own revolting language. Your naked imperialism only fuels terrorism, which only justifies more imperialism and so on. Until the American people wake up and get angry King George and his minions will just bring us more war and more death.

[dotcoma]

Quote by: jose these are the guys that are killing iraq´s? what goes around comes around i have no problem with that

Oh you have no problem with terrorists tying up Iraqi police officers and killing them in groups?

You have no problem with these people killing soldiers and planting bombs irregardless the amount of civilians that die for every American soldier they get?

...

[jose]

now we are near to 2000 us troops killed, any bets on how long it will be till we reach 20´000, bearing in mind it went to 56´000 in vietnam not to mention the 3´000´000 dead vietnamese it took to kick uncle sam out ; and the bush said bring it on,well bring it on they will they are fighting for their country not big oil if the way for them to win the war is by the US body count i too say bring it on. my condolences to ther familys ...the Americans and the Iraqis

[jose]

tye them up?
Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush was being stubborn with his American captors, and a series of intense beatings and creative interrogation tactics were not enough to break his will. On the morning of Nov. 26, 2003, a U.S. Army interrogator and a military guard grabbed a green sleeping bag, stuffed Mowhoush inside, wrapped him in an electrical cord, laid him on the floor and began to go to work. Again
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080201941.html war is hell

[dotcoma]

Quote by: RickSp And you don't count the deaths of over 10,000 Iraqi civilians killed by the US during the invasion as "indiscriminate killing"? You and those like you are precisely the ones fueling the Islamic "hate engine" you go on about. How would you respond if this country was invaded by an Islamic army, with hundred of thousands killed and the country destroyed? Would you praise the invaders for "improving your quality of life." Don't bother to reply. You have already justified going to war while lying to the "moronic masses" to use your own revolting language. Your naked imperialism only fuels terrorism, which only justifies more imperialism and so on. Until the American people wake up and get angry King George and his minions will just bring us more war and more death.

The Islamic war needed no fuel to blow up the WTC. They hit us hard and that was before the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan last time I checked. They need no physical justification. The war helps them get recruits, but to make them sound like they are revolutionaries is hillarious. You avoided my point about them killing just about anyone they can-a fact that greatly contrasts with your idea that this is merely a response to Western occupation. These guys want power and they want to kill anyone who does not follow their insane ideology.

Oh and I justified the war because economic and governmental improvement is good for both the West and the East. Whether or not we can get there is questionable.

Jose, thanks for ignoring my questions for you.

[Trotsky]

Guys....war is a sack of shite.....people die.....best way for people not to die is...don't have wars...any wars....but thats the ideal happy go lucky solution.

For the real world, its a toughie.....Past GB and US leaders helped create monsters in their bid to combat another monster..the USSR. Somewhere alond the line the West lost control of their pets and we end up with situations like Iraq and Afganistan. Throw Israel and the occupied territories into the mix and you have enough ammunition for some mad mullah to drive a few young misguided kids to blow themselves up and take x amount of civilians or Coalition soilders with them.

On a more important note...anybody notice how these Mullah's are slow to attain martyrdom themselves?? Sounds like the early Christian crusades..."oh yes men go liberate the Holy Land...I'll just wait here for you to come back!"

[Trotsky]

Quote by: dotcoma The Islamic war needed no fuel to blow up the WTC. They hit us hard and that was before the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan last time I checked. They need no physical justification. The war helps them get recruits, but to make them sound like they are revolutionaries is hillarious. You avoided my point about them killing just about anyone they can-a fact that greatly contrasts with your idea that this is merely a response to Western occupation. These guys want power and they want to kill anyone who does not follow their insane ideology. Oh and I justified the war because economic and governmental improvement is good for both the West and the East. Whether or not we can get there is questionable. Jose, thanks for ignoring my questions for you.

The fuel they needed was the Western presence in Saudi, close to and around the two holy cities of Medina and Mecca, add the support of western governments for Israel and oppressive Middle Eastern regiemes and you got more than enough ammunition for some mad Mullah to twist things to suit their evil adjenda.

[jose]

read the link i posted americans tying up a police general and beating him to death thats my reply to you if you choose to ignore it, thats your problem...bring them on for oil
i look forward to the american draft

[RickSp]

Quote by: dotcoma The Islamic war needed no fuel to blow up the WTC.

Ah yes, repeating the Big Lie. We were discussing the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and here you are raising the 9/11 attacks, implictly repeating the Bush/Cheney lie that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

So you use terrorism to justify imperialsim which breeds more terrorism which is used to justify more imperialism, and more fine Americans die for the vain glory of the arrogant scoundrels.

[righthand]

I AM ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED BY YOUR LANGUAGE. YOUR SOLDIERS BODIES ARE NOT COLD AND YOU ARE TEARING YOURSELVES APART. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO SETTLE OLD SCORE.

Try to imagine that a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a wife, a child, a friend or a lover of these brave US servicemen was watching you use the deaths to ripe each other apart.

There is only one issue that should be debated for a day or two. HOW CAN THEIR DEATHS BE GIVEN MEANING.

Tonight I listened to some bullshitter from the Brooking Institute pontificate that the majority of Americans still support the war and until that changes, there will be no change. So do something about changing that. Switch you energies from attacking each other and unite to change that majority.

Don't get me wrong. Some things I totally agree with, but not the language. Try imaging that your at a funeral as george won't be, holiday or no holiday. E-mail the White House, but use argument.

[dotcoma]

Quote by: RickSp Ah yes, repeating the Big Lie. We were discussing the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and here you are raising the 9/11 attacks, implictly repeating the Bush/Cheney lie that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. So you use terrorism to justify imperialsim which breeds more terrorism which is used to justify more imperialism, and more fine Americans die for the vain glory of the arrogant scoundrels.

Oh my god..you are so confused lol...

I know the Iraqis did not cause 9/11, but the insurgency group in Iraq is related to those who hit us on 9/11...sheesh.

You just do not understand that Iraq could have been invaded in an attempt to transform the greater Middle East thus reducing the possibility of another 9/11.

Oh and the imperialism you speak of can end terror if the economic conditions of the regions we transform follow.