Pressure rises for more cameras in U.S.

[Sean]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/23/sec....ap/index.html

NEW YORK (AP) -- Pressure is building for greater use of video cameras to keep watch over the nation's cities -- particularly in transportation systems and other spots vulnerable to terrorism -- after the bombings in London. The calls have come over the last few weeks as British investigators released surveillance footage of the bombers in the deadly July 7 attacks and then put out frames of suspects in Thursday's failed attacks. "I do not think that cameras are the big mortal threat to civil liberties that people are painting them to be," Washington, D.C., Mayor Anthony A. Williams said Friday. He's not alone. While privacy advocates question their effectiveness, Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton called for New York City subway officials to install more cameras, even though officials said some 5,000 cameras are already in use across all modes of city travel. In Stamford, Connecticut, Mayor Dan Malloy said it's time to revisit a 1999 ordinance that limited cameras to watching traffic. In many other spots around the country, cameras already are in place. "In general, I think we're getting used to cameras. Hey, that's just the way the world is," said Roy Bordes, who runs an Orlando, Florida-based security design consultant firm.

[tman_ndsu08]

I don't care what people do with their own private property.

But the govenrment ain't getting my tax dollars to install their little cameras.

[Milton Bradley]

Hmmm, all those who advocate this type of crap seem to have cushy government jobs. Coincidence?


This is another reason I think most of this terror hype is staged. The cameras are what they (the government) really want, but without the terrorist threat, there would be little hope of the American people letting this type of legislation be approved.


Hegemony, plain, and simple. (my opinion)


I wonder if they (government insiders) all invested in some camera manufacturer stocks recently?

[The Dunedan]

Oh yeah, because London's omnipresent camera network really helped prevent all those bombings...[/sarcasm]

Cameras are nothing but an expensive form of target-practice. I reccomend .22LR for the lenses, and 7.62x54R Heavy Ball or AP if you have to shoot through the casings.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: The Dunedan Oh yeah, because London's omnipresent camera network really helped prevent all those bombings...[/sarcasm] Cameras are nothing but an expensive form of target-practice. I reccomend .22LR for the lenses, and 7.62x54R Heavy Ball or AP if you have to shoot through the casings.

Note taken.


A little good old fashioned fire would probably work as well, however I, like Dunedan, would be predisposed to shoot those damn things.



I believe this to be to invasive a technology for a "free society".


Give me liberty, or pass the ammunition.

[bishop]

private companies have been using cameras for decades and nobody seems to care. i agree that camers on the subways are invasive (and very expensive). at the same time, it is public property..

didn't cctv help the brits find the bombers from the first attack? if a similar attack were to happen here, would our law enforcement people be able to identify the attackers so quickly? i agree that these cameras won't prevent any attacks, but they do seem useful in investigating them.

[Milton Bradley]

We already have Police to investigate crimes after the fact. The premise of the push to install the cameras is security. It seem we have shot that premise down in just a few posts. Next!

[bishop]

eh.. i'm not really paying attention to the words they or the media are using..

you didn't answer my questions though.. from what i've read, the cctv did help british authorities ID the attackers very quickly. if they didn't have the cameras, i wonder what evident the police would be able to use to investigate the incident.

[Milton Bradley]

I can't disagree with that.


I was just pointing out the fact that these security devices are being sold under a false premise.

[Osborn F Enready]

This is the perfect case example for the U.S. to get what they have been wishing for since they saw the closed circuit monitoring devices all over the U.S.S.R.

U.S. military and political officials were dumbfounded to see the extent of monitoring devices and cameras used in the old USSR when the wall fell. I think they have been salivating ever since, to implement their own system, based on newer technologies.

This is the craving of a Police State.

I will disable any such cameras I see installed, and have already been plotting about these traffic cameras that have come out all over the nation as of late.

[bishop]

maybe you could get some practice by running around and disabling them from the various public and private places where're they're already installed.

i'd be surprised if you actually did what you threaten to do..

[Chris]

Quote by: Milton Bradley We already have Police to investigate crimes after the fact. The premise of the push to install the cameras is security. It seem we have shot that premise down in just a few posts. Next!

Good idea, get sherlock holmes and a magnifying glass on it. :rolleyes: You might be happy living in 1860.

Good to see you not wanting the police to have any modern tools to help fight crimes. Don't worry they won't catch George Michael punchin the munchkin in a public toilets and laugh.

[Osborn F Enready]

Bishop said:
i'd be surprised if you actually did what you threaten to do..

I say:
But you would love to hear me state it, so you could report me and get me out of your daily life wouldn't ya?

All it takes for evil to prosper, is for good me to do nothing.

What is your excuse? Evil?

[The Dunedan]

It's a stupid man who does something like shooting cameras and then brags about it on an open forum known the be inhabited by Quislings and informers. I am not a stupid man.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: |Chris| Good idea, get sherlock holmes and a magnifying glass on it. :rolleyes: You might be happy living in 1860. Good to see you not wanting the police to have any modern tools to help fight crimes. Don't worry they won't catch George Michael punchin the munchkin in a public toilets and laugh.

The truth is, I am a big believer in law, and order, and truth, and justice. My problem arises from always being punished for things I have not done. I think this tactic too invasive for a free society. As long as they try to change everybodies lives for the sake of a few, I will have issues with their philosophy.


As a typical American living in the Mid-West, I just cannot justify these types of tactics invading the world I live in.


Nevermind the fact that I don't buy the official story, or sympathize with the government officials who are nervous about their own security. Frankly, I feel they deserve to be growing ever more paranoid. These are the people who have screwed up everybodies lives, East, and West, foriegn, and domestic.


If these people really have that much of a problem with freedom, and the exercise thereof, maybe they need to move to a more authoritarian society, and quit screwing mine up.

[Chris]

Quote by: Milton Bradley My problem arises from always being punished for things I have not done.

Well then with CCTV this problem will be less of a factor. Either you did it or not. Its on video. A video can have the power to acquit as well as have the power to convict.

Quote by: Milton Bradley As a typical American living in the Mid-West, I just cannot justify these types of tactics invading the world I live in.

These tactics already "invade" the world you live in. Whenever you visit a CVS Pharmacy, whenever you step into the Wal Mart, Whenever you pump gas at the gas station, whenever you run that red light. That is, assuming you don't live in BFE where they don't accept credit cards anywhere. Which I highly doubt. Remember that guy who kidnapped that girl in ID recently? They released photos of hiim hiding from police at the gas station getting gas in podunk.

[Milton Bradley]

That does mean I like, or approve of this type of security. I certainly so not wish for this type of behavior to proliferate.


This all smells of corporate rule leaving the boardrooms, and entering the public arena, yet again.


Personally, I'm sick of this type of mentality. Again, this seems to be being sold under false pretenses.

[bishop]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Bishop said: i'd be surprised if you actually did what you threaten to do.. I say: But you would love to hear me state it, so you could report me and get me out of your daily life wouldn't ya? All it takes for evil to prosper, is for good me to do nothing. What is your excuse? Evil?

no osborn. i just think you're largely full of hot air and over the top most of the time. i'm not some nazi shit who would go around reporting fellow americans who weren't planning on committing any serious crimes. if i wanted to snitch you out, i would've whined that you smoke pot.

:)

[ibm]

so we’re wanting to spend millions of taxpayers’ dollars for these cameras just to be able to identify the evil-doers quicker? geez, that makes a lot sense. can’t the bucks be spent more wisely in things like preventing the terror from happening?

and why let the bucks stop there? let’s install more cameras in each citizen’s residence, so we can see who are making the bombs at home, saying or planning for terrible things against american people or government. let’s install more cameras in people’s cars as well, so we can see who are leaving in their cars the boeing flight menus or handbooks of how to make explosives. that ought to prevent all the bombings, eh? sounds like a plan?

the nazis and the commies had the right ideas, they just didn’t have the technologies we have. :rolleyes:

[Chris]

Quote by: ibm and why let the bucks stop there? let’s install more cameras in each citizen’s residence, so we can see who are making the bombs at home, saying or planning for terrible things against american people or government. let’s install more cameras in people’s cars as well, so we can see who are leaving in their cars the boeing flight menus or handbooks of how to make explosives. that ought to prevent all the bombings, eh? sounds like a plan?

Now you are just being Juvenile. If you believe they are going to do that I have a tin hat to sell to you along with some excellent Montana land.

What kind of manpower do you think is going to take to monitor everyone in their homes? Do you think they are going to outsource all this work to aliens?