Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

ibm · Jul 25, 2005, 05:31 pm

what is the point to "identify" them and "quicker" if they are already dead themselves in the bombing? i think the idea i proposed makes more sense in terms of PREVENTING terror from happening again. :rolleyes:

bishop · Jul 25, 2005, 05:58 pm

in case you forgot, the bombings in madrid and london were not suicide attacks. cctv proved to be invaluable in britain to quickly capture the attackers, who could have gone underground or fled the country if the investigation wasn't as efficient as it was.

oranged · Jul 25, 2005, 07:59 pm

I agree that it wouldn't matter if there were camera's on trains.

Osborn F Enready · Jul 25, 2005, 08:58 pm

Chris, you keep bringing up PRIVATE COMPANIES using cameras, it's their right, and THEY pay for it.

When my government wants to justify spending MY MONEY, and EVERYONE ELSES MONEY on something a large portion don't approve of, we have issues.

Bishop, you can think I am full of hot air all you want, as you know I am not concerned of your opinion for me. My point was, there are many who have already been vandalizing red-light cameras, as well as there are companies out there selling products that claim to beat them. There are local citizens putting pressure on local government because they are unreliable, and our laws SPECIFY that an officer has to be present to witness the offence, to give a ticket.

I use violence as a last resort, and wouldn't cause property damage unless I was damn well provoked. I am often over the top, because concealing my rage is often tough to do. I think it is fairly obvious that we draw the line on certain laws differently. Some people don't buckle up, even though its a law. Some people don't wear a helmet, even though its a law. Some people smoke pot, even though its against the law. Some people buy fireworks, even though its against the law.

Those are petty laws, misdemeanors.

Common Law violations however, are equal to things like FRAUD, MURDER, RAPE.

When it comes to those rights being violated, which is basicly what constitutes a COMMON LAW CRIME, then I am extreme, extremely extreme. Might even want to say a little scary.....

Hey, we all have our view, but my rights are protected, and my government does not have a right to spy on me 24-7, and especially TO CHARGE ME, TO SPY ON ME.

Perspective......Common sense.......

I think you often say things just to be argumentative, but I don't needle you about it, because THAT would be argumentative. See what I am saying?

Osborn F Enready · Jul 25, 2005, 09:01 pm

Using this BS about "helping to catch terrorists" to justify spying on everyone in the nation is simply that..... BS.

Next thing you guys will be advocating RFID tags for every citizen, so then we can just SHOOT whoever isn't showing up on the mobile police scanner screen......after all, they COULD be a terrorist......(boogey boogey)

Milton Bradley · Jul 25, 2005, 09:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

Using this BS about "helping to catch terrorists" to justify spying on everyone in the nation is simply that..... BS.

Next thing you guys will be advocating RFID tags for every citizen, so then we can just SHOOT whoever isn't showing up on the mobile police scanner screen......after all, they COULD be a terrorist......(boogey boogey)

:rolleyes:

Oh, lets all get behind that idea, that will make us all safe.

bishop · Jul 25, 2005, 11:32 pm

the public government has control over public places.. the decisions made by the government are made by democratically elected representatives. i doubt there are subways in toledo, but you could probably make your way over to chicago if you wanted to go vigilante on some video cameras.

Osborn F Enready · Jul 26, 2005, 12:21 am

LOL, I am not going vigilante on anything.

I am just absolutely fed up with the menality. Shameless, needless revenue collection, with an tinge of police state for flavor. (streetlight cameras)

We have "allowed" selective law enforcement for so long, it is a wonder to me more people don't go postal.

CCTV is just another infringement on top of the others.....

bishop · Jul 26, 2005, 12:53 am

i'm not a fan of all the different things they impose on the public either. i'm just not so uniformly opposed to everything. heh, i guess that's one of the reasons why i describe myself as a moderate/centrist.. i can live with some cameras in the subways. i would prefer seeing more cops stationed at the turnstyles though. that would be a bit more effective imo.

Milton Bradley · Jul 26, 2005, 01:02 am

Virtually all the "public good" legislation moving throgh Washington these days is treading the slippery slope. I don't think that is a flock of convenient coincidences. Flock, gaggle, herd, whatever.

Jul 25, 2005, 05:31 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
ibm Igneous Magma Posts: 672	what is the point to "identify" them and "quicker" if they are already dead themselves in the bombing? i think the idea i proposed makes more sense in terms of PREVENTING terror from happening again. :rolleyes: economic left/right: -3.38 social libertarian/authoritarian: -3.59

Jul 25, 2005, 05:58 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	in case you forgot, the bombings in madrid and london were not suicide attacks. cctv proved to be invaluable in britain to quickly capture the attackers, who could have gone underground or fled the country if the investigation wasn't as efficient as it was. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jul 25, 2005, 07:59 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
oranged fanatic and profound Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 335	I agree that it wouldn't matter if there were camera's on trains. "It is not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts those who wield it and fear of the scourge of power corrupts those who are subject to it."- Aung San Suu Kyi

Jul 25, 2005, 08:58 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Chris, you keep bringing up PRIVATE COMPANIES using cameras, it's their right, and THEY pay for it. When my government wants to justify spending MY MONEY, and EVERYONE ELSES MONEY on something a large portion don't approve of, we have issues. Bishop, you can think I am full of hot air all you want, as you know I am not concerned of your opinion for me. My point was, there are many who have already been vandalizing red-light cameras, as well as there are companies out there selling products that claim to beat them. There are local citizens putting pressure on local government because they are unreliable, and our laws SPECIFY that an officer has to be present to witness the offence, to give a ticket. I use violence as a last resort, and wouldn't cause property damage unless I was damn well provoked. I am often over the top, because concealing my rage is often tough to do. I think it is fairly obvious that we draw the line on certain laws differently. Some people don't buckle up, even though its a law. Some people don't wear a helmet, even though its a law. Some people smoke pot, even though its against the law. Some people buy fireworks, even though its against the law. Those are petty laws, misdemeanors. Common Law violations however, are equal to things like FRAUD, MURDER, RAPE. When it comes to those rights being violated, which is basicly what constitutes a COMMON LAW CRIME, then I am extreme, extremely extreme. Might even want to say a little scary..... Hey, we all have our view, but my rights are protected, and my government does not have a right to spy on me 24-7, and especially TO CHARGE ME, TO SPY ON ME. Perspective......Common sense....... I think you often say things just to be argumentative, but I don't needle you about it, because THAT would be argumentative. See what I am saying? Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Jul 25, 2005, 09:01 pm	#25 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Using this BS about "helping to catch terrorists" to justify spying on everyone in the nation is simply that..... BS. Next thing you guys will be advocating RFID tags for every citizen, so then we can just SHOOT whoever isn't showing up on the mobile police scanner screen......after all, they COULD be a terrorist......(boogey boogey) Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Jul 25, 2005, 11:32 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	the public government has control over public places.. the decisions made by the government are made by democratically elected representatives. i doubt there are subways in toledo, but you could probably make your way over to chicago if you wanted to go vigilante on some video cameras. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jul 26, 2005, 12:21 am	#28 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	LOL, I am not going vigilante on anything. I am just absolutely fed up with the menality. Shameless, needless revenue collection, with an tinge of police state for flavor. (streetlight cameras) We have "allowed" selective law enforcement for so long, it is a wonder to me more people don't go postal. CCTV is just another infringement on top of the others..... Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready Last edited by Osborn F Enready; Jul 26, 2005 at 12:44 am.

Jul 26, 2005, 12:53 am	#29 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	i'm not a fan of all the different things they impose on the public either. i'm just not so uniformly opposed to everything. heh, i guess that's one of the reasons why i describe myself as a moderate/centrist.. i can live with some cameras in the subways. i would prefer seeing more cops stationed at the turnstyles though. that would be a bit more effective imo. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Jul 26, 2005, 01:02 am	#30 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	Virtually all the "public good" legislation moving throgh Washington these days is treading the slippery slope. I don't think that is a flock of convenient coincidences. Flock, gaggle, herd, whatever.