Man shot dead by police on Tube

[Matt W]

Quote by: GHook93 What exactly do you mean by this? Are you trying to insult me? :confused:

:eek: Where on earth did you get that idea?

Merely pointing out that it is ridiculous to expect unarmed police deal with say, counter-terrorism, armed gangs, etc.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: GHook93 What exactly do you mean by this? Are you trying to insult me? :confused:

I rather think he is trying to point out just how ineffcient we in the UK are, while conceeding that somethings would go just to far even for us.

[righthand]

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Public Statement
4 December 2006

United Kingdom -- The Killing of Jean Charles de Menezes: let justice take its course

On 5 December 2006, in the High Court of England and Wales, lawyers acting on behalf of the family of Jean Charles de Menezes will challenge -- by way of judicial review -- the decision of the Crown Prosecution Service of England and Wales (CPS)1 not to bring criminal charges against any individuals in connection with his killing in 2005. The lawyers will argue that the CPS’s decision is flawed; and that there is enough evidence in the case, prima facie, to mount a prosecution of individuals for homicide offences. Amnesty International supports this legal challenge. The organization considers that it is high time to let justice take its course in this case. Nobody is above the law.

Don't hold your breath for British 'justice'. I doubt if any justice will come of this while Tony is about and can still protect Ian.

There should be full and public scrutiny of the full circumstances leading up to the shooting, including:

• the terms of the rules of engagement;
• the policy permitting officers to “shoot to kill”, i.e. to shoot in the head, suspects believed to be suicide bombers, reportedly codenamed Operation Kratos;
• the planning of the operation which resulted in the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes;
• how the police officers involved were briefed and what orders they were given;
• whether a senior officer was contacted before any action was taken;
• whether a sufficient warning was given; and
• whether the action taken by the officers was fully in compliance with human rights law and standards concerning the use of force in the context of law enforcement -- specifically, whether the force used was no more than absolutely necessary and a proportionate response in the circumstances.

The McCann and Others v United Kingdom case referred in the statement was considered by the European Court of Human Rights and ruled a breach of Article 2 (enshrining the right to life) of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). It was the murder/execution by the SAS of three unarmed IRA members in Gibraltar.

The CPS is responsible for prosecuting criminal cases investigated by either the police or the Independent Police Complaints Commission in England and Wales. 2For more information, see United Kingdom: The Killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, issued by Amnesty International on 6 September 2006 (AI Index: EUR 45/015/2006); see also www.justice4jean.com; and INQUEST - United Campaigns For Justice.

for full statement

[PatrickHenry]

The Israeli connection. I shoulda known...
British Cops trained in Israel

The cold blooded murder of Jean Charles de Menezes, in the Stockwell underground was no accident. London Metropolitan Police had approved a policy of "shoot to kill": "a controversial tactic deployed only in the most extreme circumstances but one police have been preparing to use for the last two weeks.". The shoot to kill policy was undertaken under the auspices of "Operation Kratos", named after the mythical Spartan hero. It was carried out by the London Metropolitan's elite SO19 firearms unit often referred to as the Blue Berets. The latter are described as the equivalent to the US SWAT teams, yet in this particular case, they were not wearing uniforms. The training of the S019 marksmen was patterned on that of Israel. They had been briefed "by officers who had been to Israel to meet their counterparts there and pick up tips gleaned from the experience of dealing with Hamas bombers". "During the Kratos briefings, the Met team were told that, contrary to their normal arms training, they should fire at the head rather than the chest. Although the chest is easier to hit, it is not as reliable in causing instant death, giving a bomber a chance to detonate his device.... "(The Scottish Daily Record, 23 July, 2005). The "Israeli counterparts" refers to Israel's National Police (INP), Shin Bet (the Israel Security Agency) and Israel's Ministry of Internal Security. But the police antiterrorist operations conducted by the INP against Hamas and Islamic Jihad are carried out in close coordination with the Military (Israeli Defense Force) and Mossad. Israel has also collaborated in the training of members of the FBI and the LAPD. Top law enforcement officers of the FBI were trained in Israel under a program sponsored by the The Jewish Institute for National Security.

[Nono]

The point isn't so much a shoot-to-kill policy* (a source of never-ending debate) as how de Menezes was selected for shooting and killing. That's what needs to be cleared up.

* Chossudovsky calls it "cold-blooded". Shooting to kill is by definition cold-blooded.

By the way, righthand, your Amnesty links don't work.

[RickSp]

Menezes' only crime was being mistaken for an Arab. Apparently in the eyes of English juris prudence that justified eight shots to the head. Obviously hysteria has triumphed over justice. Murder is legal if committed in the name of fighting "terrorism".

[Nono]

Quote by: Rick Menezes' only crime was being mistaken for an Arab.

No doubt. But there must have been much more to the incident than that. If every young Arab-looking male in London in those days had been shot to death by the cops -- well you get the idea.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Nono No doubt. But there must have been much more to the incident than that. If every young Arab-looking male in London in those days had been shot to death by the cops -- well you get the idea.

In the end, it is only the results that count. Other factors are ultimately beside the point. All that really matter is that the police shot someone in the head eight times for no reason other than a misidentification. That is all that counts to Menezes' family. That should be all that counts the everyone else who rides the tube each morning and evening.

[Nono]

I agree that that is what makes the incident appalling.
But if you want to expose those responsible and prevent it from happening again, you'll broaden the scope of your interest.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Nono I agree that that is what makes the incident appalling. But if you want to expose those responsible and prevent it from happening again, you'll broaden the scope of your interest.

I agree. It would be too easy to scapegoat the officers who did the shooting. The entire incident needs to be investigated from top to bottom.

[jose]

Quote by: RickSp I agree. It would be too easy to scapegoat the officers who did the shooting. The entire incident needs to be investigated from top to bottom.

Evidence of Jean Charles de Menezes' true identity began to emerge before Met chief Sir Ian Blair told the public that his death was "directly linked" to the anti-terror operation, a report said today. His wallet, containing documents identifying the Brazilian, was first found minutes after he was shot and then searched properly several hours later at 2.47pm on July 22 2005. At 3.30pm, Sir Ian was telling the world that the shooting was linked to the "ongoing and expanding" terrorist investigation.

Wallet and phone proved victim was not terrorist - Independent Online Edition > Crime

[Nono]

Quote by: The Independent At 5pm a detective at Marylebone Police Station in the north west of the capital was told by a senior officer that there had been a "massive cock-up" at Stockwell.

Great. What we still need to know is how this cock-up happened.
It's great to see Blair & Co. come out of this report diminished, but how the hell did this happen in the first place?

[Trotsky]

Quote by: PatrickHenry The Israeli connection. I shoulda known... British Cops trained in Israel

Ye what? Britain trains it's own coppers as far as I'm aware. And how do you manage to link everything to Israel. Next you'll be telling me that Mossad killed Belfast Solicitor Patrick Finucane because he was campaigning to release or do something.:eek:

[Nono]

Well, we're finally getting somewhere:

Quote by: The Beeb (...) An Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) report highlights what it says were failures in procedures and communication. And it says Commissioner Sir Ian Blair tried to prevent its investigation. (...)

BBC NEWS | UK | Police censured over Menezes case