Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Samildanach · Jul 7, 2005, 11:19 am

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So does anybody still believe Al Qaeda and their cohorts are freedom fighters? They're murderers!! They should be hunted down and eliminated with no mercy shown.

You sound as fanatical as those you purportedly want to hunt down and murder with your own bare hands for pleasure. :confused:

Trotsky · Jul 7, 2005, 11:21 am

It wil probably be the usual rhetoric, support of Israel, the War in Iraq, revenge for the Crusades yada yada yada. The Muslim world has some legitimate gripes with the West, issues that need to be dealt with. The people who carried out this attack did so out of sheer vile hatred, nothing else. No justification, no reason.....there are none. Same as the killing of 17 civilians in Afghanistan by the Americans last week, no reason, no justification, same as Omagh bombing in Ireland a few years back, no reason, no justification.......just rhetoric, nothing more.

ibm · Jul 7, 2005, 11:28 am

i believe everything happens for a reason. unless the doers are mentally insane, which i suppose is rarely the case, people do certain things for a reason. we might be able or unable to see it, or agree to it, but there is a reason.

**Matt W** · Jul 7, 2005, 11:34 am

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You sound as fanatical as those you purportedly want to hunt down and murder with your own bare hands for pleasure

She is. No thought as to why people are anti-America, just kill 'em all. :rolleyes:

tinybear · Jul 7, 2005, 11:37 am

What do you suggest Matt? Give them all a medal?

Trotsky · Jul 7, 2005, 11:38 am

Quote:

Quote by: ibm

i believe everything happens for a reason. unless the doers are mentally insane, which i suppose is rarely the case, people do certain things for a reason. we might be able or unable to see it, or agree to it, but there is a reason.

Hatred is a reason! People will believe what they want, always take the easy option. Its easy to accuse somebody else of wrong doing than face up to your own failings...take for example why Oakley sun-specs are now taboo amongst British troops in Iraq....rumours that they had x-ray vision and people could perve on women.....I own a particularly nice pair of Oakleys and they don't have this benefit!

Samildanach · Jul 7, 2005, 11:43 am

Damn damn...I wish it were true. :)

Sgt. Rock · Jul 7, 2005, 11:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

She is. No thought as to why people are anti-America, just kill 'em all. :rolleyes:

Matt, I agree that the reasons for the MURDERS of people by terroists do have a root problem that must be delt with. But quite frankly, if it were my family member that was murdered I wouldn't give a rip about the bad guys feelings or complaints. I'd want vengance, and I don't mean justice. I know thats a hard statment but it's how I would feel.

ibm · Jul 7, 2005, 11:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: Trotsky

Hatred is a reason! ...

here you go. hatred is the reason you are able to see (and disagree, i suppose).

(btw, where does the hatred come from?)

ibm · Jul 7, 2005, 11:52 am

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Quote by: Sgt. Rock

Matt, I agree that the reasons for the MURDERS of people by terroists do have a root problem that must be delt with. But quite frankly, if it were my family member that was murdered I wouldn't give a rip about the bad guys feelings or complaints. I'd want vengance, and I don't mean justice. I know thats a hard statment but it's how I would feel.

this i can agree, too. well put.

**Matt W** · Jul 7, 2005, 12:06 pm

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I know thats a hard statment but it's how I would feel.

More than fair. Still, my point is is that vengeance is a never-ending cycle. You'll never end terrorism with attitudes like that. tb wants to go kill 'em all, never mind creating a thousand and one more Western-haters for every 'martyr' we create. Friggin' genuis. That's not using your brains, that's thinking with your dicks (metaphorically speaking, for our female posters).

jose · Jul 7, 2005, 12:06 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Sgt. Rock

Matt, I agree that the reasons for the MURDERS of people by terroists do have a root problem that must be delt with. But quite frankly, if it were my family member that was murdered I wouldn't give a rip about the bad guys feelings or complaints. I'd want vengance, and I don't mean justice. I know thats a hard statment but it's how I would feel.

how true i wonder if the Iraqi´s feel the same way? something over 150,000 killed everyone a son or daughter,father or mother of someone

Trotsky · Jul 7, 2005, 12:12 pm

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Quote by: ibm

here you go. hatred is the reason you are able to see (and disagree, i suppose).

(btw, where does the hatred come from?)

The them and us thing that mankind like to do all the time.

Yes the West has treated Islam poorly through the ages, but then again Islam has done its best to try and wipe out Christainity and Judaism at one time or another. You had the Crusades, You had the Inquisition in Spain, you had the attrocities of the Ottoman empire in Europe during the umpteen invasions, the slaughter of 2.1million Armenians, the pathetic attempts in 48/49 and 68 to wipe the scourge of Israel off the map, blah blah.

The same thing exists in Ireland even today, the "Oh must hate the English" routine, 800 years of oppression and all that bollox. Half-truths and blatant lies used to propagate hatred against somebody else, thats all this is.

A guy at work just said something to me.....

"In this world, there is plenty of reasons to live for, plenty of reasons to die for, but no real reason to kill for"

Emmz · Jul 7, 2005, 12:12 pm

33 confirmed dead, and thats not including all those on the bus :(

A trajedy for sure, but not as bad as it could have been...

Trotsky · Jul 7, 2005, 12:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Emmz

33 confirmed dead, and thats not including all those on the bus :(

A trajedy for sure, but not as bad as it could have been...

Here's a grim thought for you guys, they cannot yet confirm the number of fatalities on the two buses due to the horrific nature of the injuries inflicted.

Nothing, no reason justifies this.

tinybear · Jul 7, 2005, 12:21 pm

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Quote by: Matt W

More than fair. Still, my point is is that vengeance is a never-ending cycle. You'll never end terrorism with attitudes like that. tb wants to go kill 'em all, never mind creating a thousand and one more Western-haters for every 'martyr' we create. Friggin' genuis. That's not using your brains, that's thinking with your dicks (metaphorically speaking, for our female posters).

What do you suggest we do with the terrorists, Matt? Please enlighten us.

**Matt W** · Jul 7, 2005, 12:29 pm

Right now, tb, I suggest you stop trying to goad me until I find out all my friends in London are ok.

Here's a question for you, tb - what about all those ex-terrorists who are now politicians? Like in N.Ireland? South America? E.Timor? Tell me, would they have gone non-violent facing someone like you, or would they have happily recruited more? You have no idea how human nature works, it appears, so just give it up.

Until next time.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 7, 2005, 12:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

She is. No thought as to why people are anti-America, just kill 'em all. :rolleyes:

How many trains buses and airplanes need be bombed in London before you get it?

These people (the extremist) aren't gonna stop until they win, or thier dead.

So you chose, pray to mecca or kill them all.

**Matt W** · Jul 7, 2005, 12:31 pm

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How many trains buses and airplanes need be bombed in London before you get it?

These people (the extremist) aren't gonna stop until they win, or thier dead.

So you chose, pray to mecca or kill them all.

Right, Mr.V. Try to kill 'em all and watch thousands more spring up in their place. I never was a believer in genocide, thanks.

jose · Jul 7, 2005, 12:31 pm

whats wrong here?
Somebody told me they saw the driver running away from the bus but I don't know if that's true.

"I was helping a member of the public with directions when the bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street. I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode. In another second I would have been dead.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...188285,00.html
why would a london bus driver need to ask the name of a street?

Jul 7, 2005, 11:21 am	#62 (permalink) (top)
Trotsky Stront vir breins Location: Buckinghamshire, UK Posts: 540	It wil probably be the usual rhetoric, support of Israel, the War in Iraq, revenge for the Crusades yada yada yada. The Muslim world has some legitimate gripes with the West, issues that need to be dealt with. The people who carried out this attack did so out of sheer vile hatred, nothing else. No justification, no reason.....there are none. Same as the killing of 17 civilians in Afghanistan by the Americans last week, no reason, no justification, same as Omagh bombing in Ireland a few years back, no reason, no justification.......just rhetoric, nothing more. " UKIP -- the United Kingdom Independence Party, the golf club version of the BNP, British National Party. " Middle East.. "The vile leading the stupid to kill the decent in the name of the holy."

Jul 7, 2005, 11:43 am	#67 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	Damn damn...I wish it were true. :) I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

Jul 7, 2005, 12:29 pm	#77 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,193	Right now, tb, I suggest you stop trying to goad me until I find out all my friends in London are ok. Here's a question for you, tb - what about all those ex-terrorists who are now politicians? Like in N.Ireland? South America? E.Timor? Tell me, would they have gone non-violent facing someone like you, or would they have happily recruited more? You have no idea how human nature works, it appears, so just give it up. Until next time. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Jul 7, 2005, 11:28 am	#63 (permalink) (top)
ibm Igneous Magma Posts: 672	i believe everything happens for a reason. unless the doers are mentally insane, which i suppose is rarely the case, people do certain things for a reason. we might be able or unable to see it, or agree to it, but there is a reason.

Jul 7, 2005, 11:37 am	#65 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,008	What do you suggest Matt? Give them all a medal?

Jul 7, 2005, 12:12 pm	#74 (permalink) (top)
Emmz Sedimentary Rock Location: Staffordshire, UK Posts: 6	33 confirmed dead, and thats not including all those on the bus :( A trajedy for sure, but not as bad as it could have been...

Jul 7, 2005, 12:31 pm	#80 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,514	whats wrong here? Somebody told me they saw the driver running away from the bus but I don't know if that's true. "I was helping a member of the public with directions when the bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street. I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode. In another second I would have been dead. http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...188285,00.html why would a london bus driver need to ask the name of a street?