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**Sean** · Jul 2, 2005, 06:54 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4643647.stm

Quote:

United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan has criticised the developed world for being too slow to respond to the crisis in Sudan's Darfur region.
"We were slow, hesitant, uncaring," Mr Annan said in a BBC interview.

He said the international community had "learnt nothing from Rwanda" - a reference to the 1994 genocide there.

At least 180,000 have died since 2003 in the western region of Darfur. More than two million people have been forced from their homes.

Human rights groups, the US Congress and the US government say that genocide is taking place.

However, a UN team sent to Sudan to investigate concluded that war crimes had been committed, but there had been no intent to commit genocide by the Sudanese government.

What should be done in this region? Are we now doing enough? Can we reverse some of the damage caused by waiting?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 2, 2005, 09:13 pm

We could, but why hasn't the UN done anything??

That's something I just don't get. America could do soemthing... but hey we got a pretty full plate. Let the UN do something useful if it can.

**Sean** · Jul 2, 2005, 09:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

We could, but why hasn't the UN done anything??

That's something I just don't get. America could do soemthing... but hey we got a pretty full plate. Let the UN do something useful if it can.

Oh, when I said we I was talking the world community. I do not think it should be the obligation of the US to solve every problem alone.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 3, 2005, 04:18 am

Sean, that's the problem, the world community isn't likely to do anything. Too ricky, Wars evil remember? Send in troops and some might die and that makes for bad politics back home, and well...

Few countries operate on principle, and those that do get attacked by those unwiling, or unable to do so. Especially when such action would hurt thier pocket books.

Gorgo · Jul 3, 2005, 03:33 pm

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle296269.ece

The Bush administration described the Darfur atrocities as genocide in order to please the Christian right ahead of the American presidential elections, according to a senior US official.

**Sean** · Jul 3, 2005, 05:02 pm

You deny it is a genocide?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 3, 2005, 05:13 pm

Bush said it was, and obviously it was a lie, so it can't be. Right?

Whodoe! · Jul 3, 2005, 08:40 pm

It makes me feel dirty that everything we do is considered dirty unless they want someone to do something dirty. Kind of like a whore. Besides, any world action we take must be for the sake of African interests (the only remaining truely noble and UN approved cause) and then regardless of the cost to our taxpayers, it will be too little too late.

"The ruling regime is a mixture of military elite and an Islamist party that came to power in a 1989 coup."

If we (the world) get a coalition to go into Sudan, which of the above groups are going to get their feelings hurt?
Are we going to round up the usual rebels? And then we play, "whose your buddy" yet again? Sorry for the cynicism.

gr8fuldaniel · Jul 3, 2005, 08:49 pm

The Jinjaweed who are attacking Darfur are Saudi, thats why bush wont do anything about it. Just like the hijackers on 911, did we attack Saudi Arabia? So, why should bush declare war on his boyfriend for this? Is it worse than them attacking us?

MerlinsByte · Jul 3, 2005, 09:29 pm

If we (the USA) really gave a damn about human rights or humanity in general, the United States would be rebuilding the Sudan and most of Africa.

However, that said, the UN is obsolete and should be disbanded. It is a impotent vestige of the 1950s era. Useless and a blight on the world.

gr8fuldaniel · Jul 4, 2005, 01:10 am

Quote:

Quote by: MerlinsByte

the UN is obsolete and should be disbanded.

gw bush and john bolton would like for the UN to be disbanded like Al Capone would have liked the Chicago police disbanded. That isnt necessarily whats best for the rest of the world. Full blown anarchy would ensue. Who would enforce international law?

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 4, 2005, 03:31 am

Quote:

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel

gw bush and john bolton would like for the UN to be disbanded like Al Capone would have liked the Chicago police disbanded. That isnt necessarily whats best for the rest of the world. Full blown anarchy would ensue. Who would enforce international law?

You make that statement as if they all ready do. The UN has 2 goals, installing a World Government that all countries are just member states of. And lining the pockets of the "leaders" in the UN. Screw the UN.

Gorgo · Jul 4, 2005, 06:40 am

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artm...w.cgi/37/10764

Saturday 30 April 2005

"Sudan's Islamist regime, once shunned by Washington for providing a haven for Osama bin Laden as well as for human rights abuses during decades of civil war, has become an ally in the Bush administration's "war on terror". '

Gorgo · Jul 4, 2005, 07:39 am

Quote:

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel

Who would enforce international law?

Who is enforcing international law now?

We don't need to get rid of the UN, we need to make it a democratic body.

MerlinsByte · Jul 4, 2005, 07:44 am

Quote:

by Gorgo...Who is enforcing international law now?

Yes, I agree what Internationl law? Don't get me wrong, I detest all (big) government and consider all government inherently evil. The UN opposed us going into Iran, didn't even slow down the process of search and destroy.

We (the USA) are like a mole going after a yummy worm, blind and hungry, ravenous even.

mb

Gorgo · Jul 4, 2005, 07:56 am

Quote:

Quote by: Sean

You deny it is a genocide?

According to the Genocide Convention, probably. But then, according to the Genocide Convention, the U.S. treatment of the people of Iraq is genocide

Gorgo · Jul 4, 2005, 07:58 am

But, let's not turn this into a UN thread.

Quote:

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel

The Jinjaweed who are attacking Darfur are Saudi

Where do you get this information? From what I can see, almost all participants in this are black Africans, but I admit that I am confused.

Mr.Vicchio · Jul 4, 2005, 09:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

According to the Genocide Convention, probably. But then, according to the Genocide Convention, the U.S. treatment of the people of Iraq is genocide

Right, Were just out wiping out the Iraqi's left anbd right, the whole goal? To kill all iriaqi's! Woot...

Please. Give it a rest would ya, ther eis absolutely zero proof to bak your claim.

Gorgo · Jul 4, 2005, 09:54 am

Guess I'll not turn this thread into an Iraq thread. Some would like to turn this thing in Sudan into a battle between "Good" and "Evil." Something else is going on.

MerlinsByte · Jul 4, 2005, 10:58 am

Quote:

by Mr. Vicchio...Screw the UN.

merlin writes....My position entirely. The UN is the precursor of a one world government. A united states of the world, or more accurately a Nazi Germany version of world government. No thanks! The world would be a betterplace without this parasite.
mb

Jul 2, 2005, 09:13 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	We could, but why hasn't the UN done anything?? That's something I just don't get. America could do soemthing... but hey we got a pretty full plate. Let the UN do something useful if it can. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 3, 2005, 04:18 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Sean, that's the problem, the world community isn't likely to do anything. Too ricky, Wars evil remember? Send in troops and some might die and that makes for bad politics back home, and well... Few countries operate on principle, and those that do get attacked by those unwiling, or unable to do so. Especially when such action would hurt thier pocket books. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 3, 2005, 05:02 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	You deny it is a genocide? So it goes

Jul 3, 2005, 05:13 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,031	Bush said it was, and obviously it was a lie, so it can't be. Right? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jul 3, 2005, 08:49 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	The Jinjaweed who are attacking Darfur are Saudi, thats why bush wont do anything about it. Just like the hijackers on 911, did we attack Saudi Arabia? So, why should bush declare war on his boyfriend for this? Is it worse than them attacking us? ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jul 3, 2005, 03:33 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle296269.ece The Bush administration described the Darfur atrocities as genocide in order to please the Christian right ahead of the American presidential elections, according to a senior US official.

Jul 3, 2005, 08:40 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Whodoe! Igneous Magma Posts: 192	It makes me feel dirty that everything we do is considered dirty unless they want someone to do something dirty. Kind of like a whore. Besides, any world action we take must be for the sake of African interests (the only remaining truely noble and UN approved cause) and then regardless of the cost to our taxpayers, it will be too little too late. "The ruling regime is a mixture of military elite and an Islamist party that came to power in a 1989 coup." If we (the world) get a coalition to go into Sudan, which of the above groups are going to get their feelings hurt? Are we going to round up the usual rebels? And then we play, "whose your buddy" yet again? Sorry for the cynicism.

Jul 3, 2005, 09:29 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	If we (the USA) really gave a damn about human rights or humanity in general, the United States would be rebuilding the Sudan and most of Africa. However, that said, the UN is obsolete and should be disbanded. It is a impotent vestige of the 1950s era. Useless and a blight on the world.

Jul 4, 2005, 06:40 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artm...w.cgi/37/10764 Saturday 30 April 2005 "Sudan's Islamist regime, once shunned by Washington for providing a haven for Osama bin Laden as well as for human rights abuses during decades of civil war, has become an ally in the Bush administration's "war on terror". '

Jul 4, 2005, 09:54 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Guess I'll not turn this thread into an Iraq thread. Some would like to turn this thing in Sudan into a battle between "Good" and "Evil." Something else is going on.