7 dead in shooting at Fort Hood, Texas

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Zeebadee Can you name a Christian leader that has ever issued a fatwa?

One time Pat Robertson issued a fatwa against Hugo Chavez. I literally lol'd.

Here he is again after 9/11 with Jerry Falwell discussing the causes of the attack. Don't forget to blame the ACLU for making God angry.

YouTube - Falwell and Robertson on The 700 Club after 9/11

USATODAY.com - Pat Robertson calls for assassination of Hugo Chavez

Now, if these people were marginalized weirdos I'd be okay with it. Nope. Real people watch the 700 club in large numbers. We live in a nation of people who are only less dangerous than their Muslim counterparts because they're too fucking fat, stupid and complacent to get off the sofa and kill people.

Now remember kids, if they ever do get off the sofa small caliber bullets will get lodged in the blubber. Man the harpoons. Man them.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Angry Citizen ... link? I thought they were closer to one billion than two billion, let alone over two.

The point remains the same. This source says 1.82 billion. CNN quotes the "Mapping the Global Muslim Population," by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life which puts the figure at 1.57 billion.

Nearly 1 in 4 people worldwide is Muslim, report says

[RickSp]

Quote by: Zeebadee How about an honest answer ..... Which religion would you feel more comfortable insulting, if your name and location were known, Christianity or Islam? Can you name a Christian leader that has ever issued a fatwa?

Pope Urban comes immediately to mind. Remember the Crusades?

How about the Christian Identity Movement? The Church of Christ Christian? Or the Reverend Richard Butler who also ran militia training camps?

Inside the Christian Identity Movement

Identity follower Buford O. Furrow Jr. killed a postal worker and wounded five others after opening fire on a Jewish day-care center in Los Angeles. A month earlier, brothers Benjamin and James Williams -- also Identity adherents -- allegedly killed a gay couple in Happy Valley, Calif. And in 1985, David Tate, a member of The Order -- a group that embraces Identity beliefs -- killed Missouri Highway Patrol trooper Jim Linegar by shooting.

Timothy McVeigh had ties to the Christian Identity community Elohim City. The Oklahoma City bombing was the most act of terrorism on domestic soil prior to 9/11.

[GeminiBrian]

Quote by: RickSp Pope Urban comes immediately to mind. Remember the Crusades? How about the Christian Identity Movement? The Church of Christ Christian? Or the Reverend Richard Butler who also ran militia training camps? Inside the Christian Identity Movement Timothy McVeigh had ties to the Christian Identity community Elohim City. The Oklahoma City bombing was the most act of terrorism on domestic soil prior to 9/11.

Well researched, Rick... thanks.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Questatement I feel sorry for any person who might heroically save your life and get this type of response from you in return. In fact, knowing this in advance, I'd probably just let you die so you could be 'truly' right... dead but right.

I'm playing a game, Questatement. I'm showing that it can be done, not that it is a fair definition of heroism. People did this for pages on the thread on true altruism.

[RickSp]

Greg Marx writing in the Columbia Journalism Review makes a lot of sense.

Jumping to Confusion

It’s been just over twenty-four hours since Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan opened fire on his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood—more than enough time, clearly, for our pundits to begin opining on what it all means. And though those interpretations are varied, there is one headline that could apply to nearly all of them: Tragic Massacre Vindicates My Pre-existing Political Convictions. Many of those convictions, of course, are about the nature of Islam, the character of Muslims, and the war on terror. Michelle Malkin is talking about “Muslim soldiers with attitude.” Andy McCarthy of National Review declares, “Nidal Malik Hasan committed a mass-murder under the influence of principles held by a disturbingly large percentage of the world’s billion-plus Muslims.” The blog Gateway Pundit provided this “update” to its readers: “This was jihad.” But there’s plenty of conclusion-drawing from the non-conservative sections of the mediasphere, too. By 8:30 this morning, Newsweek’s Web site featured a column headlined “Is Fort Hood a Harbinger? Nidal Malik Hasan May Be a Symptom of a Military on the Brink.” Writer Andrew Bast acknowledges near the outset that “It’s hard to draw too many conclusions right now,” and then goes on for another 900 words about the stress of combat, the perils of PTSD, and the strain two wars are exacting on our military. And Gawker, leaping off the fact that Hasan was stopped by a female first-responder, concludes that “Ft. Hood Shoot-Out Proves Women Should Be Allowed in Combat, Already.”

He goes on to note how confused even the basic facts of the case have been garbled.

But at this point, any sort of analysis—whether it comes from a legacy publication, a niche blog, or something in-between—isn’t worth the electrons it took to transmit. That’s because there’s still plenty we don’t know about Hasan and his crime, and plenty of reason to expect that some of what we think we know is wrong. As Glenn Greenwald notes, a number of details from the early reporting have already turned out to be erroneous, among them the number of gunmen, the weapons used, and Hasan’s fate. Those questions seem to be settled, but others are still unresolved, including just where Hasan was set to be deployed, and how he felt about it.

So, Hasan may have been on his way to Iraq, or to Afghanistan. If it was Iraq, the news may have made him distraught. If Afghanistan, he may have been willing to accept the assignment, or may have fought it. And this confusion, part of which is rooted in a simple either/or question of fact, surrounds an issue that may—or may not!—have been central to Hasan’s motivation and his frame of mind. What else have we heard that is just plain wrong—or even slightly, but significantly, off the mark? It’s not fair to lay too much of this confusion at the feet of reporters, who are mostly diligent and conscientious, who are basing their claims in good faith on what they are hearing from their sources, and who are under tremendous competitive pressure to get the story first. But on a story like this, tendencies toward error, exaggeration, and inconsistency are built into the system, at least in the first days of reporting. In due time, a clearer picture will begin to emerge; in this case, we’ll even hear from the shooter himself. There will be plenty of time for analysis. Until then, let’s all take a deep breath.

[soothsayer]

No, can't happen because we have a separation of church and state, something which the xian nutters wish to have torn down so they can force more of their religious dogma into our government.

What "separation of church and state" do we have?

I thought Jesus was a "liberal" and a "socialist" remember?



Return all "social welfare" efforts to being free of the government, and then once again, we'll have "separation of church and state"

[soothsayer]

Pope Urban comes immediately to mind. Remember the Crusades?

Uhh... the crusades were a reaction to the Mohammedan Invasion of Europe/Iberian peninsula. Year 711.

[RickSp]

Quote by: soothsayer Uhh... the crusades were a reaction to the Mohammedan Invasion of Europe/Iberian peninsula. Year 711.

Your point?

Urban's proclamation said, "God Wills It" not let's respond to the current geopolitics. Your history is wrong, by the way. Pope Urban II's proclamation in 1095 which statrted the first campaign had nothing to do with Spain. He called for holy war specifically in response to the capture of Jerusalem by the Seljuq Turks.

The question was - Which Christian leader called for holy war? Pope Urban is an obvious exaple. You may note that I provided more recent examples as well.

[soothsayer]

Pope Urban II's proclamation in 1095 which statrted the first campaign had nothing to do with Spain.

In 1063, Pope Alexander II had given his blessing to Iberian Christians in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in battle.

Look, i dont want to derail the thread and turn it into a history lesson about the mohammedan invasions or the crusades. there were multiple factors for what kings and popes did all throughout history.

what is telling, however, is the blind fanaticism wirth which the left seeks to demonize anything even remotely associated with america and the majoritry of americans and how they equally blindly and fanatically support anything which seeks to destoy it.. in this instance, radical islam.

I personally beleve that fundamentalist islam is greatly hyped as a military, or even terrorist threat to america... this recent Major Hussein's freak-out included.
Teererorism and the whole mideast situation is used by the US govt (and others) for profit and other international deals

but the insidious drumbeat of destructive leftist propagandizing is as indicative of their international socialist agenda as it is dangerous.

(typing wirth win ter gloves on, breaking them in... not bad, eh?)

[Century 25]

Quote by: TheColdTruth Liberals really need to learn that the enemy of your enemy (islam to christianity) is NOT always your friend...

The entire world needs to escape the cult clutch.

[RickSp]

Quote by: soothsayer In 1063, Pope Alexander II had given his blessing to Iberian Christians in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in battle.

I agree, we shouldn't de-rail the thread. Nevertheless, if you read any of the various versions of his proclamation of 1095 that have been passed down, it makes it clear that the casus belli of the First Crusade was desire to recapture Jerusalem from the Turks who captured it in 1076.

The Pope may have given permission to the Iberian Christians in 1063 but that was not directly related to the First Crusade. It also happened to be three hundred years after the Muslim invasion itself.

Regarding, your diatribe:

the blind fanaticism wirth which the left seeks to demonize anything even remotely associated with america and the majoritry of americans and how they equally blindly and fanatically support anything which seeks to destoy it.

That is simply hyperbole and horseshit, akin to the rightwing zombies who are comparing national health care to Hitler's concentration camps. Calling your political opponents traitors who hate their own country is frankly, just stupid.

[Chris]

Quote by: Questatement Please demonstrate where anything over 1% of today's, professing Christian population has ever endorsed the killing of civilians related to events during their lifetimes?

how about abortion bombings and murdering of doctors?

[Chris]

Quote by: Questatement Female Police Officer Credited With Stopping Fort Hood Massacre, Hailed a Hero I'm curious who on this board will argue against her act being defined as true heroism.

Questatement

do not start parallel threads.

Also, there is a format for Breaking News that must be followed.

consider this your only warning

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[The Black Ghost]

Quote by: viper Four? She should be a little more liberal in her rounds down range. I really don't understand why police dealt with this at all... Why call in amateurs when there are more then likely some pros based there? But of course she's a hero, she kicked ass to the best of her abilities, which is all you can ask from anyone.

Since Fort Hood is so large, it is more of a city than a base, and there are police there that are not soldiers themselves (perhaps military police) but in the end, what does it matter? She did her job.

[RickSp]

How could anyone call Sgt. Kimberly Munley an amateur? She is a former soldier who became a member of the base's civilian police department. She is a firearms instructor, a marksman and a member of the police SWAT team.

She showed great skill, initiative and courage. She was wounded in both legs and her wrist during the close range gunfight, but she stayed upright, kept firing at the gunman and took him down.

She is no amateur.

[Chris]

Quote by: viper Four? She should be a little more liberal in her rounds down range. I really don't understand why police dealt with this at all... Why call in amateurs when there are more then likely some pros based there? But of course she's a hero, she kicked ass to the best of her abilities, which is all you can ask from anyone.

I disagree.

I would think that if she were in a crowded room with other innocent people, she took the right course of action. Also None of us were there, so we cant rush to judgment.

[Chris]

This brings up that question again, he bought the gun legally in a shop in Killeen.

Just like the dude at Virginia Tech.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Chris This brings up that question again, he bought the gun legally in a shop in Killeen. Just like the dude at Virginia Tech.

Like so much of the "facts" in this tragedy, the reports have been contradictory. It now appears he used at least one 5.7mm handgun. If I am not mistaken as a major Hassan was issued an M9 pistol, which is a 9x19mm Parabellum, as a side arm. The M9 is also a very lethal weapon at short range in the right (or wrong) hands.

I think focussing on hardware risks missing the larger issues.

[Nono]

The lonely life of 'Number Nine'
washingtonpost.com