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Thread: Nancy Pelosi's "wag the finger" moment

  1. #13
    An Analyst& A Gadfly Yarn's Avatar
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    But she didn't even lodge a complaint with the administration when she was briefed. She near admitted such when she was asked whether or not she did and answered with that "they only told me they were considering doing it" thing.

  2. #14
    Volcanic Erupter lsbskins1's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Yarn View Post
    But she didn't even lodge a complaint with the administration when she was briefed. She near admitted such when she was asked whether or not she did and answered with that "they only told me they were considering doing it" thing.
    And this, folks, would be a valid complaint about Pelosi. It takes into consideration her actual position and takes her to task for not doing what she very well could have done, without breaking her oath or surrendering her principles. It may not be a crime to do nothing to halt the criminal behavior of others, but it is a moral failure to not try.
    All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard -
    Tell me, could that be you?

    John Kay

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    Another nice Catch-22: Ignore the chain of command and risk being jailed for insubordination or participate in torture and risk having those who ordered you to do it place all the blame on you. Lovely!
    Absolutely wrong, under the Unified Code of Military Justice and the Code of Military Conduct, every member of the US armed forces is compelled to disobey an unlawful order. When a member of the armed forces is told by a higher ranking officer to torture, since it is against the Code of Military Conduct and the UCMJ, the order must be disobeyed.

  4. #16
    Volcanic Erupter lsbskins1's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: rmnunez View Post
    Absolutely wrong, under the Unified Code of Military Justice and the Code of Military Conduct, every member of the US armed forces is compelled to disobey an unlawful order. When a member of the armed forces is told by a higher ranking officer to torture, since it is against the Code of Military Conduct and the UCMJ, the order must be disobeyed.
    That is why they went to the trouble of getting those lawyers to come up with the "it ain't really torture" opinions, so that they could have some cover and claim that the order was not illegal. Are you really that intent on making the rank and file responsible for this? This is exactly why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wo should be prosecuted. They all knew better, especially that shmuck of a lawyer (who sold his soul to please his bosses and put the regular Joe soldier in such a damn awful position.)
    All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard -
    Tell me, could that be you?

    John Kay

  5. #17
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    I don't think it works that way. If the soldier is told to perform some act he reasonably thinks is torture and his commanding officers says it is not torture because some attorney working for the president has determined so, but the soldier still thinks its torture, he can refuse the order as unlawful, a court martial is convened and it will determine whether disobedience to that order was lawful. Given the description of the conduct, the fact that counsel was sought to determine whether it amounted to torture and the difference of opinion evident on this matter -it is not clear a court martial would conclude White House counsel was correct.

  6. #18
    Seek truth Apeman81's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Yarn;621020]barnhardt2010: Ordering and passively witnessing are two different things. It is not a crime to witness a crime and not do anything about it"

    It is, however, criminal activity to subsequently deny that you witnessed the crime, and in fact deny any knowledge that the crime took place.

  7. #19
    An Analyst& A Gadfly Yarn's Avatar
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    Apeman81:

    It is, however, criminal activity to subsequently deny that you witnessed the crime, and in fact deny any knowledge that the crime took place.
    Under oath it is, but Pelosi, as far as I know, has never spoken of this matter under oath.

  8. #20
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    Pelosi stated the CIA lied when it reported she was informed of the use of torture. If she was truthfull then the CIA broke the law by falsely claiming it had reported of its torture of captives to the Chair of the Congressional Intelligence Committee. As it happens, Pelosi lied, she was briefed by the CIA on Abu Zubaida's waterboarding, I don't know if her conduct was criminal, but it certainly was reckless and prejudicial to the national interest.

  9. #21
    Volcanic Erupter lsbskins1's Avatar
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    Here, CIA says Pelosi knew about waterboarding; she says no - CNN.com, we have Pelosi's statement and the statement released concerning the briefing. Show me the lie. From what I read, she was, as she said, never briefed on the use. She was later (her briefing was in Sept of '02, the info from the aid came in Feb of '03) informed by an aid that her successor on the committee was briefed and told that the techniques were used. So, since there is, as yet, no documentation that condtradicts her assertion that she was not told in the '02 briefing that they USED, not just considered, the technique, and since we know that at the time of the '02 briefing, the technique was already in use and not just being considered, was she not misled then, even if they came clean 5 months later to the next ranking Dem on the committee? The time line seems to work in her favor. If you told the person who was your boss in Sept that you considered taking office supplies, but hadn't and then 5 months later, told your NEW boss that you had, in fact, taken office supplies at the earlier time, does this mean that you never misled your OLD boss? And would the old boss be lying if he said you never told him that you had taken the supplies? I think not.
    All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard -
    Tell me, could that be you?

    John Kay

  10. #22
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    If you believe Pelosi is saying the truth, then the CIA never mentioned the waterboarding procedure in 2002. In that case, what she did find out about the torture of captives came second or third hand, from aides or colleagues who did attend briefings where the CIA may have mentioned the procedures used to question captives.

    In that scenario Pelosi's righteous indignation today about the enhanced interrogation techniques the demonic duo of Bush and Cheney contrived to humiliate, degrade and despicably torture presumably innocent alleged terrorist suspects, makes sense -the truth was concealed from her and her colleagues who would have put a halt to the horrendous practices had they known what was going on.

  11. #23
    Seek truth Apeman81's Avatar
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    The Speaker's arrogance got ahead of her mouth, and now her buttocks is seeking the cover that did not make it to her mouth on time.

  12. #24
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    I just wonder whether Obama will throw her under the bus or try to help her out.

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