20,000 Troops To Be Deployed in United States

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Deadeye Furthermore, and even more importantly, how does one know that info gleened by the government from such wiretaps hasn't stopped numerous terrorists attacks? It has been reported several times that some have been thwarted.

Because they would TELL us. They nailed those nitwits in Florida who were asking FBI agents for uniforms to be terrorists and they made a big deal about those clown who were going to going to blow up a NY airport by setting fire to a fuel pipeline a mile away. If they're going to claim they're doing such a great job with those ridiculous examples you kind of know they're going to make a big noise when they stop a REAL threat.

I still stand by my claim that no one has been injured by so called wiretaps directed by the Patriot Act. The government admitted their wrong doing in Mayfield's case and paid him a bunch of money....

It's not just about injury. My e-mails and phone calls are nobody's damned business except for the recipient's.
If I hive the feds any reason to suspect me, go ahead. I have no problem with that and the FISA court (which Bush deliberately ignored) was there just for that reason. But I don't like government fishing for evidence and I REALLY don't like being lied to. The whole eavesdropping thing was designed for FOREIGN calls to suspect people.

I find it amazing when so many people who don't even like somebody watching them while they EAT have no problem with warrantless wiretaps.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I find it amazing when so many people who don't even like somebody watching them while they EAT have no problem with warrantless wiretaps.

You fail to either understand or admit that the only people who have had their phones tapped or those who are talking to known or suspected terrorists in a land that houses terrorists.

You believe, I guess because you want to; that all Americans are having their phones tapped. Have you any idea how hard that would be to do?

So your fears are misguided. Your phones are not being tapped. If they are that means you are talking to a know or suspected terrorist in a land where they live.

I suggest therefore that you relax. It's Christmas, enjoy yourself.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Deadeye You fail to either understand or admit that the only people who have had their phones tapped or those who are talking to known or suspected terrorists in a land that houses terrorists.

I understand enough. As I already said, the plan was sold to us as exactly what you said, but it was EXPANDED afterwards, and also against the purpose of the FISA courts, which was the reason Bush held firm on not allowing the telecoms to be sued.

And exactly how is it you know for sure it WAS only the people you mention? Got an in with the White House, or what?

You believe, I guess because you want to; that all Americans are having their phones tapped. Have you any idea how hard that would be to do?

Here's the part where I ask you to show where I actually said "all Americans are having their phones tapped"?

So your fears are misguided. Your phones are not being tapped. If they are that means you are talking to a know or suspected terrorist in a land where they live.

Forgive me if I completely dismiss you as a source of info as to what the government does, particularly when it is in secret.

I suggest therefore that you relax. It's Christmas, enjoy yourself.

Actually I am quite relaxed and looking forward to Christmas, thank you. I wish you the same.

Please don't assume I take these arguments as anything other than pleasant diversions. That's what they're here for.

[dixon]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I find it amazing when so many people who don't even like somebody watching them while they EAT have no problem with warrantless wiretaps.

Because we know we would never be subjected to a warrantless wiretap. Thats against the law. And before the changes to the Patriot act. our lives were not conducive to attracting the attention of those who seek to prevent terrorism.

[key wish]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I understand enough. As I already said, the plan was sold to us as exactly what you said, but it was EXPANDED afterwards, and also against the purpose of the FISA courts, which was the reason Bush held firm on not allowing the telecoms to be sued. And exactly how is it you know for sure it WAS only the people you mention? Got an in with the White House, or what?Here's the part where I ask you to show where I actually said "all Americans are having their phones tapped"?Forgive me if I completely dismiss you as a source of info as to what the government does, particularly when it is in secret.Actually I am quite relaxed and looking forward to Christmas, thank you. I wish you the same. Please don't assume I take these arguments as anything other than pleasant diversions. That's what they're here for.

I don't mean to interrupt but could you tell me, scribbler1, where is the source that tells me of the expanded patriot act and further more ....

How do you know it wasn't just the people who were mentioned, IE the people were suspected of terrorist activity, who were tapped?

I was just wondering if you have an in with the white house.

[key wish]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Because they would TELL us. They nailed those nitwits in Florida who were asking FBI agents for uniforms to be ..... I find it amazing when so many people who don't even like somebody watching them while they EAT have no problem with warrantless wiretaps.

They would not tell us. Yes. we would here of some examples but the vast majority would be kept as quiet as possible. The less that was leaked about the info gathering the better. If you advertise every example of a wire tap helping to nab a suspect then you only serve to make those that would commit such crimes that much more careful.

There are 300 mil people in the country. I doubt the feds want to here what people are having for dinner or about their fishing trips. They aren't just listening at random. They are listening with an intent. I have no more problem with wire taps to hunt down suspected terrorists than i have with ones to hunt down gangland thugs and crooked governors. They all have warrants.

How did we get on wire taps any way. I better go back and read previous posts. I thought this was about troop deployments in the US.

[key wish]

Quote by: Piscean And people wonder why I plan to get the hell out of this country. A frog will sit in a pot of water that starts out cool and gets heated slowly until he boils. I'm no frog.

Where exactly do you think you are going to go? Where are the atrocities against the public that you are so worried about not happening? Which country doesn't have an all powerful government to invade your rights?

[Rortykiller]

Quote by: Deadeye You fail to either understand or admit that the only people who have had their phones tapped or those who are talking to known or suspected terrorists in a land that houses terrorists. You believe, I guess because you want to; that all Americans are having their phones tapped. Have you any idea how hard that would be to do? So your fears are misguided. Your phones are not being tapped. If they are that means you are talking to a know or suspected terrorist in a land where they live. I suggest therefore that you relax. It's Christmas, enjoy yourself.

Its actually incredibly easy to sort through all conversations with a computer. They even have computers that can read lips, I saw one in action on the History Channel where they used it to decode video of Hitler that didn't have audio. To trace all the sounds is simple a part of the process of relaying the sound in the first place. Not to mention their capacity to trace emails, track mail, detect heart-beats through walls, heat-scan the inside of your home from space, etc, etc.
As for fears of people being put onto a list of suspected terrorists unjustifiably, are you guys forgetting about the terrorist fly list with several MILLION Americans? This information is in front of your face, the papers you read, the news you see, and you still can't connect any dots?
How can you even respond to what I'm saying right now without admitting you're completely wrong. This isn't even a debatable subject, its a fact, the information is available. Here is some old shit about it thats been declassified, try and find me a similar report proving we've stopped any of this?

SUPPLEMENTARY DETAILED STAFF REPORTS
ON INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES AND THE
RIGHTS OF AMERICANS

_______

BOOK III
_______


FINAL REPORT
OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE
TO STUDY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS

WITH RESPECT TO
INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES
UNITED STATES SENATE


INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES AND THE RIGHTS OF AMERICANS: WARRANTLESS FBI ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE

Enjoy!

[Rortykiller]

Quote by: key wish They would not tell us. Yes. we would here of some examples but the vast majority would be kept as quiet as possible. The less that was leaked about the info gathering the better. If you advertise every example of a wire tap helping to nab a suspect then you only serve to make those that would commit such crimes that much more careful. There are 300 mil people in the country. I doubt the feds want to here what people are having for dinner or about their fishing trips. They aren't just listening at random. They are listening with an intent. I have no more problem with wire taps to hunt down suspected terrorists than i have with ones to hunt down gangland thugs and crooked governors. They all have warrants. How did we get on wire taps any way. I better go back and read previous posts. I thought this was about troop deployments in the US.

how to get around wire taps, pre-paid phone cards and public phones.... wow.... like everyone didn't already know that!

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: dixon Because we know we would never be subjected to a warrantless wiretap. Thats against the law.

I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: key wish I don't mean to interrupt but could you tell me, scribbler1, where is the source that tells me of the expanded patriot act and further more ....

Since I never mentioned the Patriot Act I can't tell you. I was referring to the actual wiretapping and nothing else, and the way the FISA court, which was created just for this situation was ignored by the administration. Doesn't that tell you something?

How do you know it wasn't just the people who were mentioned, IE the people were suspected of terrorist activity, who were tapped?

Nobody had a problem with that, as it was the way they sold the program to us. When they expanded the scope of the monitoring was when people took notice. Otherwise why would Bush demand the telecoms be immune to lawsuits if they were only doing what we approved of in the first place?

I was just wondering if you have an in with the white house.

Of course not. I'm just not some idiot who blindly trusts an untrustworthy government.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: key wish They would not tell us. Yes. we would here of some examples but the vast majority would be kept as quiet as possible. The less that was leaked about the info gathering the better. If you advertise every example of a wire tap helping to nab a suspect then you only serve to make those that would commit such crimes that much more careful. There are 300 mil people in the country. I doubt the feds want to here what people are having for dinner or about their fishing trips. They aren't just listening at random. They are listening with an intent. I have no more problem with wire taps to hunt down suspected terrorists than i have with ones to hunt down gangland thugs and crooked governors. They all have warrants. How did we get on wire taps any way. I better go back and read previous posts. I thought this was about troop deployments in the US.

Why don't you just look up a timeline of the events at that time instead of arguing in a vacuum.

And yes, we have veered off the topic.

[dixon]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not.

No sarcasm intended. Your belief that the government might be wiretaping your phone borders on paranoia.

[grandpa]

Quote by: dixon No sarcasm intended. Your belief that the government might be wiretaping your phone borders on paranoia.

Just about every government in the world knows about this potential to monitor all citizens. It's hardly just sheer paranoia.

Grandpa h.

[dixon]

Quote by: grandpa Just about every government in the world knows about this potential to monitor all citizens. It's hardly just sheer paranoia. Grandpa h.

The government has the potential to nuke us all tommorrow. Belief that tey will is paranoia.

[Rortykiller]

as PROVEN ALREADY the US GOVERNMENT IS UNQUESTIONABLY TAPPING EVERY SINGLE PERSON'S PHONES. Proven, end of discussion, I posted their own documents admitting as much, you CAN NOT argue against that (though dixon, you did once again conveniently ignore my proof.... let me guess, you're going to say I didn't post any). Dixon, why post, educating yourself is far down on your list why bother?

[Jack]

The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations. The technique is called a "roving bug," and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials for use against members of a New York organized crime family who were wary of conventional surveillance techniques such as tailing a suspect or wiretapping him. The surveillance technique came to light in an opinion published this week by U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan. He ruled that the "roving bug" was legal because federal wiretapping law is broad enough to permit eavesdropping even of conversations that take place near a suspect's cell phone. Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set. The U.S. Commerce Department's security office warns that "a cellular telephone can be turned into a microphone and transmitter for the purpose of listening to conversations in the vicinity of the phone." An article in the Financial Times last year said mobile providers can "remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call." Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone." Because modern handsets are miniature computers, downloaded software could modify the usual interface that always displays when a call is in progress. The spyware could then place a call to the FBI and activate the microphone--all without the owner knowing it happened. (The FBI declined to comment on Friday.)

FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool - CNET News

Yesterday the mafia, tomorrow you?

[grandpa]

Quote by: dixon The government has the potential to nuke us all tommorrow. Belief that tey will is paranoia.

Fear of an internal nuclear strike is, at best, informed paranoia. It is not "paranoia," however, to suggest that a multi-national nuclear war is possible.

Grandpa h.

[Athena]

Quote by: Jack I blogged about this back in October with a quote from the Times-Standard: Jeber’s » Post Topic » Are we preparing for martial law? If these reports aren't troubling enough there's also this one: Jeber’s » Post Topic » New surveillance program will turn military satellites on US If your classmates are unconcerned about these sorts of things then I fear for the future of our republic. Their apathy is tantamount to tacit approval for acts that may very well violate U.S. law. I'm sure the OJ story is juicier (sorry), but it hardly impacts the future of our nation like these stories do.

Our apathy is the direct result of education for the military industrial complex. This education does not transmit the culture essential to defending our liberty. It makes humans as mindless as ants in an ant hill, where each does the technologically correct thing, and does not question why.

I am constantly noticing the problem in our everyday lives. Receptionist who process phone calls like machines, who do not relate well with the human being making the phone call. People completely ignoring tyranny, because they now assume authority over the people, and following the process.

For several years now a uniformed security guard has been sitting in the social security office and I knew this was about preparing people for presince of troops on our streets. But hey, what are going to do about it? For years I have been saying this manifest through public education, and we can use our public schools to manifest another reality, but no one pays any attention. I keep hoping people will start paying attention, but my hope is very weak, compared to what it was many years ago, when I first started explaining the change in public education.

It is not enough to state a social problem. When the problem is stated, the solution must also be stated, or there will be no action. The solution must come through public education as it did in the past, but people don't get it, so they won't mobilize into action.

[Athena]

Quote by: grandpa Fear of an internal nuclear strike is, at best, informed paranoia. It is not "paranoia," however, to suggest that a multi-national nuclear war is possible. Grandpa h.

The people best trained to take manage disasters is the American Red Cross. Their training and organization is like the military, but they don't carry arms and they remain citizens. They do not become the property of the state, as do military personnel. There is a very important difference.

Everyone should go to Beyond War and become familiar with the effect of a nuclear bomb. It so destroys the infrastructure and personnel who can respond to a disaster, it is pathic to say troops on our streets will be capable of disaster managemnet. I could throw up. My God, the sheeple are pathetic.