U.S. government expected to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac

[grandpa]

Quote by: minorwork Surprisingly I find myself agreeing with "the survival of the whole should take precedence over individual greed."

I'm not surprised. It's a perfectly reasonable principle. Where people operate under basic cooperative principles, you may find yourself seeing the human mind and its most prized creations with quite new eyes.

Grandpa h.

[another day]

And of course the CEOs are getting multi million dollar severance packages as part of this deal.

It's shady corporatism at it's worst.

I think this whole thing is far too complicated for anyone without some kind of degree in economics to fully understand, and I admit I don't really have any idea about all the problems associated with it, but I think the bailout is likely a circular, short term solution that will only create more economic fall out in the future.

The government keeps doing all these things to put off the huge recession like lowering interest rates, printing new money, bailing out wall street etc. Seems like it's only putting off the inevitable and will lead to a much larger recession in the future when this house of cards comes tumbling down.

The free market is an unattainable ideal, like self-governing anarchistic collective or whatever -- pure utopionism. The market has to be corralled by a democratically appointed body, i.e. regulated. Otherwise it's The Jungle.

But it is regulated now... Is that working out? I think regulation might work if the democratically appointed body that we have to oversee this regulation isn't so thoroughly corrupt and in the pockets of corporations via lavish election funding, backdoor deals and whatever.

[minorwork]

Quote by: grandpa I'm not surprised. It's a perfectly reasonable principle. Where people operate under basic cooperative principles, you may find yourself seeing the human mind and its most prized creations with quite new eyes.

Comrade. You inspire like no other. Skilled you are in sliding past unpleasant topics. Good training in that craft. Maybe in your hands it should be considered art. Kudos. I must look up your trainer.

Basic cooperative principles mine coal. Foolish bosses must be trained by their men. Some take longer than others. Truly tough cases require the boss to be taped up and hung from a roof bolt. Or worse. The trainers were known as the "Boss Whisperers".

In a bureaucratic system run wild, the boss would be accompanied by a company witness. Of course training ceased and production was impeded as the bosses orders were carried out explicitly. I think our training altered boss's management taught technique of pushing men, to the superior technique of pulling for the men.

And yet those in management that made the worst decisions seemed to make the most money. What are the failed Freddie Mac and Freddie May corporate heads making? I don't know where to look or who to blame. I do know that the money I worked for is being stolen by inflation. Inflation is encouraged by government in order to fund its ever increasing expansion. Even higher costs of gasoline works for government. It is unreasonable to expect these government forces to discourage inflation. They move at every opportunity to push unbalanced budget policies that eventually steal the fruits of our labor. Bailouts of private and government run corporations are encouraged with the excuse being that their failure would be disastrous. Indeed. Especially for the parties that the lynch mobs would hold responsible.

These thefts are not caused by individual greed, but ruthless desire for control over every aspect of an individuals life by small groups of highly influential men and their families. Setting monetary policy is the most efficient means of control. Removing intrinsic value of the money, the means. Then by controlling of the printing presses, the theft is accomplished.

But, comrade, we both already know this and are encouraged to see our work for the "Vitchyzna" is nearing an end. Won't you join me in a glass of Stolichnaya? These Americans truly are sleeping sheep. I can hardly wait.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Karl Marx

[grandpa]

Quote by: minorwork Comrade. You inspire like no other.

Your sarcasm is also inspirational, though I'm not sure what it will achieve.

Grandpa h.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: another day The government keeps doing all these things to put off the huge recession like lowering interest rates, printing new money, bailing out wall street etc. Seems like it's only putting off the inevitable and will lead to a much larger recession in the future when this house of cards comes tumbling down.

The house of cards IS coming down, and the process is accelerating. Where we end up is now anybody's guess. Tonight, Lehman is set to declare bankruptcy at market open in the morning, Merrill Lynch is being forced to sell out to B of A, and we can anticipate an open down about 400 points or more tomorrow (Monday).

Quote by: another day But it is regulated now... Is that working out? I think regulation might work if the democratically appointed body that we have to oversee this regulation isn't so thoroughly corrupt and in the pockets of corporations via lavish election funding, backdoor deals and whatever.

Unfortunately it ISN'T regulated, thanks to guess who?? A DEMOCRAT, your old friend bill clinton. All the talk about clinton leaving a big surplus is nonsense.

"When Bill Clinton gave that pen to Sanford Weill, it symbolized the ending of the twentieth century Democratic Party that had created the New Deal. Although the 1999 law did not repeal all of the banking Act of 1933, retaining the FDIC, it did once again allow banks to enter the securities business, becoming what some term "whole banks."

The repeal of one of the most important pieces of legislation in this nation's history came about as a result of another Clinton "triangulation," the wobbling attempt to find the middle of the road that has somehow managed to pass for a philosophy with many Democrats for over two decades. As former Clinton former campaign Richard Morris once described it, you move a little to the left, a little to the right. I'd love to hear Clinton give that explanation to a foreclosed home owner today.

With the stroke of a pen, Bill Clinton ended an era that stretched back to William Jennings Bryan and Woodrow Wilson and reached fruition with FDR and Harry Truman. As he signed his name, in the whorls and dots of his pen strokes William Jefferson Clinton was also symbolically signing the death warrant of Liberal America and its core belief in the level playing field that had guided the Democratic Party. "
Progressive Historians: History For Our Future

[xyzer]

barts blames this on capitalism..

Evidence that unfettered capitalism devolves to crime, and that reasonable legal constraints on capitalism are necessary. The mortgage industry in the United States has just been nationalized. Socialism has, once again, rescued the capitalists

When in fact if the US Congress had left these companies alone there wouldn't be a problem.
Some years back(1968) Congress helped fianance the mortgage loan business but in the process stipulated tha loans must be made under almost under any conditions. Thus the mortgage companies were forced(allowed) to make loans to risky customers.(the government would be behind them...socialism) People with low incomes, poor credit histories and the like were given borderline loans including variable interest rate loans. Thus the capitalist system was corrupted by a socialist mandate. Now the government(meaning we tax payers) are implicated? If the Congress had allowed the Capitalist System to function it wouldn't have missed a beat! The capitalists weren't rescued, they were forced to conform to socialist rules.

[grandpa]

Quote by: xyzer barts blames this on capitalism.. When in fact if the US Congress had left these companies alone there wouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps some day you'll blame something on capitalism. I'll be sure to mark that day on my calendar.

Grandpa h.

[minorwork]

Quote by: grandpa Perhaps some day you'll blame something on capitalism. I'll be sure to mark that day on my calendar.

Well said, comrade. Someday we'll blame something on socialism too.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: xyzer barts blames this on capitalism.. When in fact if the US Congress had left these companies alone there wouldn't be a problem. Some years back(1968) Congress helped fianance the mortgage loan business but in the process stipulated tha loans must be made under almost under any conditions. Thus the mortgage companies were forced(allowed) to make loans to risky customers.(the government would be behind them...socialism) People with low incomes, poor credit histories and the like were given borderline loans including variable interest rate loans. Thus the capitalist system was corrupted by a socialist mandate. Now the government(meaning we tax payers) are implicated? If the Congress had allowed the Capitalist System to function it wouldn't have missed a beat! The capitalists weren't rescued, they were forced to conform to socialist rules.

This sounds like nonsense to me. How about some evidence?? What regulation forced mortgage companies to "give" borderline loans? The bad loans were provided by people that subsequently sold them, took the money, and left the buyer holding the bag.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Thanatos That this would be a really, really bad time to have a mortgage or really any sort of debt.

My broker told me that if my line of credit which is with WaMu will be voided of the institution goes broke. That's cool for me. But I'd rather not have that line of credit just voided. It's just not fair is it. We need fairness.

[xyzer]

Get informed zee.

This sounds like nonsense to me. How about some evidence?? What regulation forced mortgage companies to "give" borderline loans? The bad loans were provided by people that subsequently sold them, took the money, and left the buyer holding the bag.

Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae were set up and backed by the government! They have some half the credit market. This dates back some decades and started during the Carter Admin and was reenforced by the Community Redevelopment Act during the Clinton Years.
These two corporations were encouraged to buy up loans from banks and brokers(few questions asked) and loosened the natural queries/credit reassurances about the borrowers credit history and ability to repay the loans.

As a result lenders loosened requirements and made lots of bad loans, being assured that FM&FM would buy the loan. Thus I say the free market principal of assuring that a borrower is a good risk before lending him money, was reshaped by government!. FM and FM would buy up any loan good or bad. This is what I mean by government interference in the free market. Would you loan someone money who gave evidence of being a bad credit risk? I think not or you'd go out of business fast.

This went on for years until 2007 when foreclosures increased and the whole framework collapsed. Bad loans had been resold to many other agencys world wide so the potential effects were immense.

Who else is to blame but the government...when it interfered with the conditions of mortgage loans.

[Deadeye]

Does this buyout of Fred and Fannie mean that the government now owns our banking system? Seems like it does to me. The government will own all of Fred and Fannie's assets, which means that the government owns your house, if that is; you have a mortage.

Now, do we want the government to control our banking system? They already regulate it, now they own it.

Can we trust the government to operate the banks? I mean, they have such a long history of managment and business successes.........WRONG.

Are we seeing "creeping socialism" here? Or is it galloping socialism?

Government regulation and manipulation of Fred and Fannie got us into the credit mess, now we are supposed to trust them to get us out of it? Hmmmmm........seems to me that "something is rotten in Denmark". And on Capital Hill.

[minorwork]

Quote by: Deadeye Does this buyout of Fred and Fannie mean that the government now owns our banking system? Seems like it does to me. The government will own all of Fred and Fannie's assets, which means that the government owns your house, if that is; you have a mortage.

Well, I might have reworded your question; Does the banking system own our government?

Elected officials are no where to be found. No responsibility from Pelosi. Barney Frank? I guess I've not looked hard enough. But wait. See what I've found. A condensed history of the Glass-Steagall Act and its subsequent modification and destruction by the bankers, Federal Reserve, and our elected officials.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ll/demise.html



So who was in charge last week? Elected officials? No. Bankers. Bernanke and Paulson. It should be obvious by now that if there was any doubt about a shadow government the events of the last year and a half have shown us who is really in control of the country and their intentions for the furthering of socialistic slavery of the workers.

We are now a nation of debtor slaves that will be providing trees, food, anything we have to those we've borrowed from.

Exploration of space and high energy physics won't be done here. The United States will be paying back instead of paying for.

The dupes in congress and the white house deserve some kind of reward for their part in the enslavement of the nation. They will be re- elected, of course, and continue to do the bidding of their banking masters. They surely have nothing to fear from the electorate.

[jose]

The Federal reserve bank ( its about as federal as Fed-ex) lends money in almost unlimited quantities(they invent money, as its not backed by gold ) to the US government at interest, interest which is paid by citizens via taxes, if people outside lose confidence in the Dollar, they might not accept them as payment for goods, so the Treasury has decided to honor the bankers bad debts, and will just add another half trillion dollars to your tab
click here to see what a trillion pennys look like
The MegaPenny Project | One Trillion Pennies
My advice would be let the privately own ¨Federal reserve bank¨go bust and the US govt. start to print thier own money, backed by gold or silver as stated in the constitution
Gold, Money and the U.S. Constitution

[Zakari]

It works out at around $2500 per US citizen...that's a scary amount of debt for most people to suddenly be lumped with. I only hope Nu-Liebour don't do the same to us if we have similar problems...

[xyzer]

Here is a fact sheet on Freddi Mac...
Freddie Mac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice the phrase government subsidized. Plus the authorization to make loan guarantees.
Fannie Ma is the same

Freddie Mac, was a government sponsored enterprise (GSE) of the United States federal government, authorized to make loans and loan guarantees.

The FHLMC was created in 1970 to expand the secondary market for mortgages in the US. Along with other GSEs, Freddie Mac bought mortgages on the secondary market, pooled them, and sold them as mortgage-backed securities to investors on the open market.

This spells government interference with the free market.

[tfox_60]

Quote by: Zeebadee we can anticipate an open down about 400 points or more tomorrow (Monday).

It opened 6 points UP.

[minorwork]

The 2005 attempt by the Senate Banking committee to regulate Freedie Mac and Fannie May never made it to a floor vote.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aSKSoiNbnQY0

[xyzer]

Here is a pretty good rundown...
Bloomberg.com: News

Too much government interference and pressure overcame normal prudence in lenders

[minorwork]

Quote by: xyzer Here is a pretty good rundown... Bloomberg.com: News Too much government interference and pressure overcame normal prudence in lenders

Funny, I would have said not enough. The bankers lobbied politicians against limiting government regulations and have been working on crippling the Glass-Steagle Act of 1933 since its enactment. The following link has already been posted. But again: frontline: the wall street fix: mr. weill goes to washington: the long demise of glass-steagall | PBS

My favorite quote in your article:

Wallison wrote at the time: ``It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.''

And hindsight has shown what a really good thing the portfolio limitations would have been. John McCain was one of three co-sponsors of Senate.190.

So who was against this bill? The article claims that those against had large contributions from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and their employees. Naming three. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Christopher Dodd.