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Matt · Jul 9, 2008, 12:04 pm

Quote:

THE Church of England was facing a serious split yesterday after its ruling General Synod voted to allow women bishops despite threats by more than 1300 clergy that they would quit over the issue.

The crunch vote at the University of York in northern England followed a passionate six- hour debate which pitched conservatives against liberals and ended with one bishop in tears as he said he was “ashamed” of the Church of England.

Bishops voted to bring forward legislation to ordain women bishops by 28 to 12, clergy were in favour by 124 to 44 and lay people by 111 to 68.

It's about time. This is a good step.

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2008, 12:20 pm

Dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming. It's not easy trying to adapt a 2000 year old Eastern philosophy to a modern Western society.

Dan_77 · Jul 9, 2008, 12:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Jack

Dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming. It's not easy trying to adapt a 2000 year old Eastern philosophy to a modern Western society.

which 2000 year old eastern philosophy would that be?

**Jack** · Jul 9, 2008, 01:00 pm

Christianity, from the Middle East?

Dan_77 · Jul 9, 2008, 01:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Jack

Christianity, from the Middle East?

I was just wondering because the decision of the church to have only male preachers was not based on the religion itself, so to say it was based on the 2000-year-old philosophy of the church is inaccurate.

grandpa · Jul 9, 2008, 03:11 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tivodan1116

I was just wondering because the decision of the church
to have only male preachers was not based on the
religion itself, so to say it was based on the
2000-year-old philosophy of the church is inaccurate.

Not really. The New Testament says women should be silent in Church.

Grandpa h.

imasnapplefact1 · Jul 10, 2008, 01:04 am

it's really the women's choice. they can leave and become bishops and preachers of their own modified faith or they can live out what the bible truly says.

SoylentGreen · Jul 10, 2008, 01:06 am

Quote:

Quote by: imasnapplefact1

it's really the women's choice. they can leave and become bishops and preachers of their own modified faith or they can live out what the bible truly says.

Or the churches can face a slow and gradual depletion of the faithful who see them as relics of a long gone past.

thrashee · Jul 10, 2008, 01:10 am

It amazes me that this is news in this day and age.

Women shouldn't be ordained based upon the writings of grumpy old men from 2000 years ago?

It's a wonder to me that any Christian church is still alive today.

SoylentGreen · Jul 10, 2008, 01:23 am

The reason as far as I can see is two fold.

Quote:

Biblical evidence that Jesus chose only men among the Twelve and that it was only to them that he said at the Last Supper, "Do this in remembrance of me" (I Cor 11.24), has been taken to reveal his will that only men should ever be ordained to the priesthood.

Quote:

the unsuitability of women for these roles on an interpretation of the story of the creation of Eve and her role in the Fall: "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. Further, Adam was not deceived,, but the woman was deceived and transgressed" (1 Timothy 2.13-14). This passage so interpreted was used as the scriptural basis for the common conviction that women were inferior to men and were more easily led astray, a conviction that certainly contributed to the belief that women were unsuited for ordination to the priesthood.

About.com: http://www.usao.edu/~facshaferi/CTSA1.HTML

So there you go, not only is it all there fault , but they lie and cheat and naturally inferior.
I wonder how a woman priest feels teaching this stuff?

thebuescherman · Jul 10, 2008, 01:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: SoylentGreen

The reason as far as I can see is two fold.

About.com: http://www.usao.edu/~facshaferi/CTSA1.HTML

So there you go, not only is it all there fault , but they lie and cheat and naturally inferior.
I wonder how a woman priest feels teaching this stuff?

I actually read an article that describes that segment of the bible in a completely different manner. I wish I could remember all of the details...but the author stressed that man was not created first. I don't believe sex is mentioned at any point until Eve is created....thus meaning that both sexes were created at the same time. After all, how could Adam by himself be considered a certain sex when he was the only one of his kind? I wish I could quote this stuff to give it a more firm basis, but that was the general gist of the article. There was more about how Eve may have been dominant over Adam, since he blindly followed her, etc. I'll try to look for the article online.

Aussie · Jul 10, 2008, 01:54 am

Quote:

Quote by: thrashee

It amazes me that this is news in this day and age.

Women shouldn't be ordained based upon the writings of grumpy old men from 2000 years ago?

It's a wonder to me that any Christian church is still alive today.

Easy, indoctrinate children from birth before they can make their own decisions, that'll keep the numbers up.

Matt W · Jul 10, 2008, 05:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: imasnapplefact1

it's really the women's choice. they can leave and become bishops and preachers of their own modified faith or they can live out what the bible truly says.

Given that it's the official Church heirachy that is endorsing women bishops, I think you'll find it's the other way round...

grandpa · Jul 10, 2008, 09:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: Matt W

Given that it's the official Church heirachy that is endorsing
women bishops, I think you'll find it's the other way
round...

But does it matter? Churches have long been illegitimate systems of fear-mongering, social alienation and oppression. Why expect anything else?

Grandpa h.

Compugasm · Jul 10, 2008, 09:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: thebuescherman

...After all, how could Adam by himself be considered a certain sex when he was the only one of his kind?

Hmm, that's a pretty good point. Anyway, women priests? Next thing you know, there will be gay priests... oh wait, nevermind. What is next... cat and dog priests?

grandpa · Jul 10, 2008, 09:54 am

Quote:

Quote by: Compugasm

What is next... cat and dog priests?

They'd probably have more reasonable things to say.

Grandpa h.

JaneDoe321 · Jul 10, 2008, 12:11 pm

It's so strange to me that the folks who are screaming the loudest on this change are the leaders of a church which *itself* was a platform for change from "the established way of doing things".

I think it's also interesting that there are talks of some of the groups re-aligning with the Vatican. "Oops, sorry, we changed our mind, we wanna come back, they're not playing nice over there!"

Dan_77 · Jul 10, 2008, 11:26 pm

Quote:

Quote by: grandpa

Not really. The New Testament says women should be silent in Church.

Grandpa h.

To be more precise, Paul says it in his letter to the Corinthians. Not Jesus. Paul's authority is no more binding or literal than any other man.

ThoughtCriminal · Jul 11, 2008, 01:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: thebuescherman

I actually read an article that describes that segment of the bible in a completely different manner. I wish I could remember all of the details...but the author stressed that man was not created first. I don't believe sex is mentioned at any point until Eve is created....thus meaning that both sexes were created at the same time. After all, how could Adam by himself be considered a certain sex when he was the only one of his kind? I wish I could quote this stuff to give it a more firm basis, but that was the general gist of the article. There was more about how Eve may have been dominant over Adam, since he blindly followed her, etc. I'll try to look for the article online.

If there's just one God, then how is God male?

Clearly, God is a hermaphrodite.

TC

ThoughtCriminal · Jul 11, 2008, 01:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: grandpa

They'd probably have more reasonable things to say.

Grandpa h.

Historically, no canine or feline priest has ever supported slavery, misogyny, homophobia or genocide. Too bad human preists don't have as good a track record. I vote for Pope Fido I or Pope Fluffy IX.

TC

Jul 9, 2008, 12:20 pm	#2 (permalink)
Jack Inquisitor Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 17,895 Blog Entries: 70	Dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming. It's not easy trying to adapt a 2000 year old Eastern philosophy to a modern Western society. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Jeber's If we're all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?

Jul 9, 2008, 01:00 pm	#4 (permalink)
Jack Inquisitor Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 17,895 Blog Entries: 70	Christianity, from the Middle East? The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Jeber's If we're all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?

Jul 10, 2008, 01:04 am	#7 (permalink)
imasnapplefact1 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	it's really the women's choice. they can leave and become bishops and preachers of their own modified faith or they can live out what the bible truly says.

Jul 10, 2008, 01:10 am	#9 (permalink)
thrashee Igneous Magma Posts: 597	It amazes me that this is news in this day and age. Women shouldn't be ordained based upon the writings of grumpy old men from 2000 years ago? It's a wonder to me that any Christian church is still alive today.

Jul 10, 2008, 12:11 pm	#17 (permalink)
JaneDoe321 Igneous Magma Posts: 320	It's so strange to me that the folks who are screaming the loudest on this change are the leaders of a church which itself was a platform for change from "the established way of doing things". I think it's also interesting that there are talks of some of the groups re-aligning with the Vatican. "Oops, sorry, we changed our mind, we wanna come back, they're not playing nice over there!"