Study: Gays in military don't hurt ability to fight

[Halofan48]

Study: Gays in military don't hurt ability to fight - CNN.com

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress should repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" law because the presence of gays in the military is unlikely to undermine the ability to fight and win, according to a new study released by a California-based research center. The study was conducted by four retired military officers, including the three-star Air Force lieutenant general who in early 1993 was tasked with implementing President Clinton's policy that the military stop questioning recruits on their sexual orientation. "Evidence shows that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly is unlikely to pose any significant risk to morale, good order, discipline or cohesion," the officers states. To support its contention, the panel points to the British and Israeli militaries, where it says gay people serve openly without hurting the effectiveness of combat operations. Undermining unit cohesion was a determining factor when Congress passed the 1993 law, intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members can't say they are gay or bisexual, engage in homosexual activity or marry a member of the same sex. Supporters of the ban contend there is still no empirical evidence that allowing gays to serve openly won't hurt combat effectiveness. "The issue is trust and confidence" among members of a unit, said Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, who retired in 1993 after working on the issue for the Army. When some people with a different sexual orientation are "in a close combat environment, it results in a lack of trust," he said. The study was sponsored by the Michael D. Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, which said it picked the panel members to portray a bipartisan representation of the different service branches.

Thoughts?

[ironeagle]

I don't see why our military thinks gay people can't fight just as good as straight people. If there is a lack of trust or whatever then I'd say it's the straight people who are causing the problem not the gay people. Perhaps the military should have informative sessions teaching them it's ok to trust your gay team member.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Halofan48 Study: Gays in military don't hurt ability to fight - CNN.com Thoughts?

Gays may not be that-straight, but they know what Homeland is all about. Some rules need to be changed and/or modified, though.

[Thanatos]

This is silly; it does not cut to the heart of the true reason gays are not allowed to serve in the military.

YouTube - 'Gays Too Precious To Risk In Combat,' Says General

[Jack]

Gays have been serving in the military since the revolution. We have served, fought and died with honor. The debate should more accurately be over how we perceive gays in the military, not whether they belong there or not. They're already there and have been for years.

[thebuescherman]

No reason they can't serve with the best of them.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Nothing too shocking here.

And, to be frank, given how difficult it is to find people dumb enough to join the military these days, they can hardly afford to turn uncloseted gays away. They need more cannon fodder for Afghanistan, Iraq and, soon enough, Iran.

TC

[Hurt]

Oh..just because there was supposed to be something wrong in the first place.

[Gods_Mercenary]

The issue was never if gays could fight, to my understanding, but rather how others would be affected by having an out of closet gay in their midst. combat units live in close quarters with no privacy. In a male environment like that, whether its a football team or a ranger platoon, morale depends on a sort of trust between the individuals that their normally homophobic habits can be suspended based on the fact that their comrades are "not gay". Now, a gay man could certainly develop this sense of trust just by being respectful of his squadmates boundaries, but I could see where problems could arise. I've never questioned a gay person's ability to fight, from what I saw in the movie 300, the greatest warriors of the ancient world were all gay bodybuilders.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary The issue was never if gays could fight, to my understanding, but rather how others would be affected by having an out of closet gay in their midst. combat units live in close quarters with no privacy. In a male environment like that, whether its a football team or a ranger platoon, morale depends on a sort of trust between the individuals that their normally homophobic habits can be suspended based on the fact that their comrades are "not gay". Now, a gay man could certainly develop this sense of trust just by being respectful of his squadmates boundaries, but I could see where problems could arise. I've never questioned a gay person's ability to fight, from what I saw in the movie 300, the greatest warriors of the ancient world were all gay bodybuilders.

Wouldn't this also be an argument against the presence of women in the military?

TC

[Gods_Mercenary]

Women aren't allowed in many combat units, especially the more spec. ops or reconnaissance units that spend significant amounts of time in quarters like I described.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Women aren't allowed in many combat units, especially the more spec. ops or reconnaissance units that spend significant amounts of time in quarters like I described.

Is there any particularly good reason for this? I seem to remember that the Israelis studied this issue and determined that women are quite capable of contributing to combat units.

TC

[Gods_Mercenary]

No one said they aren't, the issue is overall unit perception. Imagine living out in the field behind enemy lines in an all male environment except for one or two women, you can see where that'd get uncomfortable.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Halofan48 Study: Gays in military don't hurt ability to fight - CNN.com Thoughts?

Of course it doesn't! But why should homos be allowed to share sleeping and showering facilities with the sex to which they're attracted while heteros are prohibited from doing so? Unless you're willing to eliminate the separation of the sexes, there will never be equality.

[Jack]

heteros are prohibited from doing so?

Are they?

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Jack Are they?

Yes. That's why the military has separate sleeping and showering facilities for women.

[imasnapplefact1]

i don't see anything wrong with the don't ask don't tell policy. For a soldier the only thing he has is hope and trust, so if he has to worry about a member of his squad being uncomfortably close or what not he may expose himself under fire and be killed or cause others to be killed

[Chancellor]

Quote by: imasnapplefact1 i don't see anything wrong with the don't ask don't tell policy. For a soldier the only thing he has is hope and trust, so if he has to worry about a member of his squad being uncomfortably close or what not he may expose himself under fire and be killed or cause others to be killed

I agree with Ron Paul on this one.

“we dont get our rights because we are 'gay or women or minorities,' we get our rights as indiviuals”

I agree with him that people are not groups people are themselves individuals and what group you say they belong to doesn’t define them; and that If homosexual behavior disrupts the military it should be removed and if heterosexual behavior disrupts the military it too should be removed.

However, it is wrong to allow homosexuals to share sleeping and showering facilities with the sex to which they're attracted if heterosexuals are not also allowed to do so. The homos claim to want equality but there is no equality if they are given special privileges that heteros are denied.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary No one said they aren't, the issue is overall unit perception. Imagine living out in the field behind enemy lines in an all male environment except for one or two women, you can see where that'd get uncomfortable.

Apparently, the Israelis cope somehow. I suspect masturbation plays a key role in this.

TC

[ThoughtCriminal]

Quote by: Chancellor Of course it doesn't! But why should homos be allowed to share sleeping and showering facilities with the sex to which they're attracted while heteros are prohibited from doing so? Unless you're willing to eliminate the separation of the sexes, there will never be equality.

Main Entry: 2homo Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural homos Etymology: by shortening Date: 1922

often disparaging : homosexual
— homo adjective often disparaging

If you're too lazy to type "homosexual", try "gay". Otherwise, I will get you kicked off Volconvo.

TC