US factory worker in gun rampage

[Matt W]

BBC NEWS | Americas | US factory worker in gun rampage

A 25-year-old employee at a plastics factory in Kentucky shot dead five colleagues and injured another before killing himself, police have said. He opened fire at the Atlantis Plastics factory in Henderson city after arguing with a male supervisor, said police. Using a handgun he got from his car, the employee killed his 30-year-old supervisor, two other male workers and two females, police told the BBC.

Another gun rampage....not good.

[Gods_Mercenary]

In an interesting linking of threads, turning a gun on others over plastic goggles is a pretty succinct example of what insanity is.

[HelioPrime]

All the more reason to own guns, so those poor dead could have defended themselves with the constitutional right to carry a firearm.....

Well with the libertarians seemingly gone I thought I'd just add some input from the vanished side.

In all honestly when will it be enough? How many people have to die in on attack or in a month, week, or year before our over glorified violent country decided to ban the sale, manufacture, and possession of guns.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: HelioPrime All the more reason to own guns, so those poor dead could have defended themselves with the constitutional right to carry a firearm.....

And yet again with the logic of insanity.

Look Helio... the U.S. already has the most firearms per household than any other developed nation on earth while also being nearly the most gun-violent developed nation on earth. How, exactly, did you imagine that having even MORE guns than already having the MOST was going to reverse that???

The logic escapes me.

It certainly hasn't worked within the United States.

'Pro-Gun' States Lead the Nation in Per Capita Firearm Death Rates

--"At the regional level, we found a positive and statistically significant relationship between rates of household gun ownership and homicide victimization for the entire population, for victims aged 5 to 14 years, and for victims 35 years and older (Table 1 [triangle]). These results were attributed primarily to higher gun-related homicide rates in regions with higher rates of firearm ownership; non–gun-related homicide rates were also elevated in regions where there were more guns, but to a lesser extent."-- Rates of Household Firearm Ownership and Homicide Across US Regions and States, 1988–1997 American Public Health Association

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[HelioPrime]

^ Perhaps I should have used italics. I was just kidding. I thought that'd be the tag line the former libertarian posters would use

[Matt W]

Indeed Sonart - do try and read the entire post next time...

[Sonart]

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Sorry... my bad I'm in a busy cycle now and I have to sorta rush through the posts when I get an opportunity to go online. {{SIGH}}

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[Jack]

As humans become more and more numerous, we become more and more common. Scarcity invokes protection, it gives an object value. Abundance produces acceptance, familiarity breeds contempt.

As a society we are moving away from the days when there were so few of us the individual played an important role in society. Now it's the group that's the smallest significant social unit. We all have to identify with some group or another to get our voices heard about the din produced by all the other groups. The internet's a great example. Thanks to linking, everything is connected to something else. A few pages exist in isolation, but they have no impact on the web. You only attain significance on the internet if people link to you and you to them. This is the age of the community.

That makes the individual less important, less significant. And some people can't handle that realization. Their delusions could not save them or those they made victims to their insanity.

[ironeagle]

Without guns tyranny will not subside, it will only come on swift wings in other forms none of which will be able to stop without a militia to fight against it. The U.S governemnt will never ban themselves from having weapons because too many other countries spend all year killing their own people and children in the streets and then deciding to attack other countries because they don't like them. So long as my governments has guns so should we.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: ironeagle Without guns tyranny will not subside, it will only come on swift wings in other forms none of which will be able to stop without a militia to fight against it. The U.S governemnt will never ban themselves from having weapons because too many other countries spend all year killing their own people and children in the streets and then deciding to attack other countries because they don't like them. So long as my governments has guns so should we.

I'm afraid that if we ever did need guns to fight against our government, unless we can legally buy some tanks and planes along with all the ordinance that comes with it any rebellion would likely be short lived. I don't care how good of a shot with a rifle you are, you can't fight an Abrams tank.
Your shotgun isn't going to take out an apache.

Really, we should at least have stricter gun control.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Not sure how that would help in a premeditated rampage.

[ironeagle]

You are also forgetting that many of the military in America are getting fed up with the way they are being treated, it's very possible the government won't have anyone to drive their tank. Even if they do I'd rather attempt to take a shot with a shot gun than stand there with my finger up my nose, or cower in a corner somewhere.

[shawmutt]

Yes, let's cling to the few murderous rampages in the US as "proof" that guns are an issue. Is there a logical fallacy called "appeal to cognitive bias"?

If we didn't have guns the psychos would find other ways to exact their "revenge"--like bombs or knives.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Shawmutt Yes, let's cling to the few murderous rampages in the US as "proof" that guns are an issue.

A FEW murderous rampages? The U.S. is among the most murderous and gun violent nations in the world. We should only WISH it were a "few" rampages.

From the American Bar Association...

"The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world."

"The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined." -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

"The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations." -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Quote by: Shawmutt --like bombs or knives.

Naw... with knives you have to get right next to your victim, and bombs you have to know how to build.

"Of those incidents in which the murder weapon was specified, 70.3 percent of the homicides that occurred in 2004 were committed with firearms." -- Dept of Justice, FBI, 2004

Guns? They're a cinch. Even an 11 and 13 yr-old can kill and injure a dozen people from 200 feet away, with just some simple pulls of a finger.



Granted, they were well trained by the NRA's youth gun safety course.

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[shawmutt]

A FEW murderous rampages?

In 2005 the number of victims in a multiple homicide totaled a bit over 750 out of 300,000,000 people. You are quite correct in your exasperation and I apologize for the exaggeration. I should have said an infinitesimal proportion of homicides are the result of a murderous rampage.

Granted, they were well trained by the NRA's youth gun safety course.

The NRA, along with many other organizations and individuals, train millions of kids a year about how to handle guns safely. If your logic allows you to single out two sick individuals who happened to attend a NRA safety course then that is your issue. It would, however, behoove you to learn a bit more about critical thinking.

[ShadowFox]

Somewhere i posted a whole bunch of stories about kids who got a hold of a gun and well...I think it's in the gun control thread, would have to find it. Ya, the one that disturbed me the most was the 7 year old boy who shot his sister in the face with a shotgun over potato chips.

[shawmutt]

Your "stories" still pale in comparison to the number of households with guns where nothing bad ever happens.

[shawmutt]

Quote by: shawmutt In 2005 the number of victims in a multiple homicide totaled a bit over 750 out of 300,000,000 people. You are quite correct in your exasperation and I apologize for the exaggeration. I should have said an infinitesimal proportion of [people in the US are victims of a murderous rampage].

[edited for clarification]

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Shawmutt Your "stories" still pale in comparison to the number of households with guns where nothing bad ever happens.

Well heck, by that logic, we shouldn't be worried about drunk drivers either, since they only kill about 13,000 people a year, versus the probable millions of times drunk people get behind the wheel. My odds are really pretty good, aren't they, so why is everyone so worried?

Quote by: Shawmutt The NRA, along with many other organizations and individuals, train millions of kids a year about how to handle guns safely.

Safely and effectively. NRA training may make kids less likely to hurt someone accidentally with a firearm, but as Mitch Johnson and Andrew Golden proved so well, if someone wants to kill anyone, all that NRA training will accomplish is to make them much better at it, even if they're just children.


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[shawmutt]

Well heck, by that logic, we shouldn't be worried about drunk drivers either, since they only kill about 13,000 people a year, versus the probable millions of times drunk people get behind the wheel.

I'm not sure what the illegal act of drunk driving has to do with the legal ownership of firearms. A better comparison would be to people who operate their autos legally. 12% of all auto fatalities involve alcohol intoxication*, meaning that the majority of fatal auto accidents do not involve drunk driving. Should we outlaw autos?

*Intoxicated Driver Statistics

Mitch Johnson and Andrew Golden

Again, two wackos out of the millions of safe kids. I'm not sure what point you're driving at, but it's an extremely weak premise.