Puppy-throwing Marine is removed from Corps

[inri]

Quote by: Chris your point that people kill animals, is taken, however there is something to be said about people who get enjoyment out of seeing an animal suffer and or die.

Exactly!!... Although a vegan myself due to ethical reasons, I fully acknowledge the difference between killing an animal out of the necessity for sustenance, and killing one for the sheer pleasure of it!....I take it real rockingham, you've never owned a dog as a pet?...If in fact you have, I pity the dog.

The puppy in that video experienced horrific fear - is that not enough reason to condemn the behavior of this marine?....Have you ever felt fear?...how did it feel?...It stuns me how some humans seem to be born without the ability to empathize..

[Jack]

Agreed. It's sad that some people can anthropomorphize a deity they've never met yet lack compassion for other living things in front of their eyes.

[Chris]

Quote by: inri Exactly!!... Although a vegan myself due to ethical reasons, I fully acknowledge the difference between killing an animal out of the necessity for sustenance, and killing one for the sheer pleasure of it!....I take it real rockingham, you've never owned a dog as a pet?...If in fact you have, I pity the dog. The puppy in that video experienced horrific fear - is that not enough reason to condemn the behavior of this marine?....Have you ever felt fear?...how did it feel?...It stuns me how some humans seem to be born without the ability to empathize..

thats a good position to take - the troglodytes who kill animals for fun will often use that argument against peta members but they either ignore or fail to see the reasoning in your argument.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: inri Exactly!!... Although a vegan myself due to ethical reasons, I fully acknowledge the difference between killing an animal out of the necessity for sustenance, and killing one for the sheer pleasure of it!....I take it real rockingham, you've never owned a dog as a pet?...If in fact you have, I pity the dog. The puppy in that video experienced horrific fear - is that not enough reason to condemn the behavior of this marine?....Have you ever felt fear?...how did it feel?...It stuns me how some humans seem to be born without the ability to empathize..

I personaly have no idea of a puppy's emotional range, but you can't be responsible for the emotions you cause in others, it is the act of killing with no reason that is reprehensible.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Jack Agreed. It's sad that some people can anthropomorphize a deity they've never met yet lack compassion for other living things in front of their eyes.

Not really, a deity is a concept, and it is the reducing of living beings to concepts that often enables cruel actions, that or pure sadism, or just a general callousness that is understandable, if not acceptable, in certain individuals that are forced or choose to make combat ther proffession.

[inri]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I personaly have no idea of a puppy's emotional range, but you can't be responsible for the emotions you cause in others, it is the act of killing with no reason that is reprehensible.

For anyone who has ever shared a relationship with a dog, I think it's fairly easy to assess and make a supposition of what a dog or puppy in this case is capable of emotionally. Dogs are capable of exhibiting behaviors that we know are connected to 'fear', such as shaking, crying etc. I don't think it's too much of a stretch here to suggest the puppy felt fear as he was dangled by this uncaring abusive person (god only knows what he inflicted uopn the puppy beforehand) and then thrown to it's death.

..."Can't be responsible for the emotions you cause in others"....If I choose to throw a puppy off a cliff am I not responsible for the fear that puppy feels?....your statement does not make sense, perhaps I'm misunderstanding...

[??!]

Quote by: inri your statement does not make sense, perhaps I'm misunderstanding...

I'm lost. I don't understand either.

[Gods_Mercenary]

You can program a robot to take action that conveys emotion to a human observer. But again, I'm not going to claim anything about the emotions a puppy feels, or a human being, if I can help it. If you throw a puppy off a cliff, who the hell cares what it felt? the fact is you just killed a defenseless being with no reason. Emotions are involuntary and subjective, and you therefore can't take responsibility for your own, never mind others'.

ps, I actually doubt he did anything to the puppy beforehand, what I saw indicated showing off for the camera and acting like a sadistic tough guy, rather than actually taking joy in the puppy's pain itself.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary You can program a robot to take action that conveys emotion to a human observer. But again, I'm not going to claim anything about the emotions a puppy feels, or a human being, if I can help it. If you throw a puppy off a cliff, who the hell cares what it felt? the fact is you just killed a defenseless being with no reason. Emotions are involuntary and subjective, and you therefore can't take responsibility for your own, never mind others'.

So if someone hit you with a car, they are not responsible for the pain you felt? If someone rapes you, they are not responsible for the fear, anger, and other emotions you feel due to that incident? If their actions cause an emotion in you, then they are responsible for causing said emotion.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Pain is a sensation caused by bodily injury, not an emotion, and they are responsible for the injury. If someone rapes you, they are responsible for taking your right to your own body, whatever emotions you felt about that are secondary and your own deal. If you rape someone while they are passed out, they don't feel any emotion, yet the crime is just as morally bad. In terms of causality, of course they are responsible, morally, no, since you can't know what any action will cause a person to feel.

[??!]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Pain is a sensation caused by bodily injury, not an emotion, and they are responsible for the injury. If someone rapes you, they are responsible for taking your right to your own body, whatever emotions you felt about that are secondary and your own deal. If you rape someone while they are passed out, they don't feel any emotion, yet the crime is just as morally bad. In terms of causality, of course they are responsible, morally, no, since you can't know what any action will cause a person to feel.

What about emotional pain?

[Gods_Mercenary]

I could feel anguish at you attacking my argument, are you morally culpable for that?

[??!]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I could feel anguish at you attacking my argument, are you morally culpable for that?

Yes, as I am the one who posted certain comments to anger you.

[Gods_Mercenary]

not at all, you intended rational discussion, I alone am responsible for my emotions, and even that is questionable, since they tend to be involuntary. By attacking I simply meant pointing out flaws as you are doing now.

[??!]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary not at all, you intended rational discussion, I alone am responsible for my emotions, and even that is questionable, since they tend to be involuntary. By attacking I simply meant pointing out flaws as you are doing now.

How do you know my agruement was intended for rational discussion? What if I had other intentions?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Then you are responsible for your intentions, malevolent or otherwise, not what they caused me to feel. If I'm masochistic, and you hit me intending to cause me displeasure, but I like it, you still are culpable for the malevolent intentions.

[Thanatos]

I want this topic as a bumper sticker. They make ones for being pro-life and pro-war, but the gratuitous puppy murder issue really doesn't get much attention. Imagine its value as a conversation starter:

Random strangers: Are you serious about that bumper sticker?

Me: Support your right to gratuitously murder puppies! Do not tolerate this fascist artificial imposition of value upon a worthless perfectly edible animal!

Random strangers: You're insane.

Me: That's all you've got for argumentative prowess? Hahaha! Its...so pathetic its like listening to a puppy whimper right before I bite its head off.

Random strangers: Eeek! Don't hurt me!

Seriously I'm wondering if responders besides ??! have been distorting things. Nobody really supports gratuitous puppy murder right?

[inri]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary You can program a robot to take action that conveys emotion to a human observer. But again, I'm not going to claim anything about the emotions a puppy feels, or a human being, if I can help it. If you throw a puppy off a cliff, who the hell cares what it felt? the fact is you just killed a defenseless being with no reason. Emotions are involuntary and subjective, and you therefore can't take responsibility for your own, never mind others'. ps, I actually doubt he did anything to the puppy beforehand, what I saw indicated showing off for the camera and acting like a sadistic tough guy, rather than actually taking joy in the puppy's pain itself.

The puppy was whimpering. Correct or incorrect, I read that as 'fear'. To knowingly cause (through your actions taken) another living being to feel 'fear', an emotion that we are all aware is not pleasant, is morally wrong (as far as I'm concerned)...and yes, taking the life of any living thing for the sheer pleasure it brings is immoral as well.

Surely suffering counts somehow...?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Of course, but physical suffering is caused by your actions, which you are morally responsible for. If the puppy had been somehow asleep, would you really think it was any less of a crime?

[Matt W]

Last time. There is a topic. Let's stick with it. You want to discuss the nature of pain there's the Philosophy & Religion forum.

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