DNA Test in store for Polygamy Kids

[grandpa]

Quote by: Kakumei Actually they arent being traditional at all, although they think they are, and thats why they go by "Fundamentalist" Latter Day Saints. Lol, there are no real fundimentals to our religion.

That'syour opinion. But tell them that and you'd get a different story. Again, I'm not at all fond of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's a general point I'm making, not necessarily involving religion.

Grandpa h.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready WHere did I say that you non-reading imbecile..... Oh, I didn't, you just made it up.... Now I remember one of the main reasons I left this forum..... thanks for reminding me.

I read what you said.

In response to a state action that removed children from an environment in which it is now confirmed that girls as young as 14 were being sexually abused, you said that state action was "blatant abuse by the state, of individual rights and due process, regardless of the "reason" the group seperated themselves from society."

The group separated themselves ostensibly for religious purposes, but also to permit them to sexually abuse young girls. You think that when the state stepped in to stop the abuse, it violated their individual rights. Ergo, my post.

You seem to have forgotten the rules while you were away...

[Kakumei]

Quote by: grandpa That'syour opinion. But tell them that and you'd get a different story. Again, I'm not at all fond of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's a general point I'm making, not necessarily involving religion. Grandpa h.

Actually, its fact, if you wanna see for yourself look it up. I know my religion better than you, no offence.-

[grandpa]

Quote by: Kakumei Actually, its fact, if you wanna see for yourself look it up. I know my religion better than you, no offence.-

Again, it's fact according to you. However, according to them you'd be the one who is lying, or at least misinformed.

Grandpa h.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: grandpa Again, it's fact according to you. However, according to them you'd be the one who is lying, or at least misinformed. Grandpa h.

The fact is, they are a break off, and pick and choose from our religion what they believe? Whats not fact about something like that?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Kakumei The fact is, they are a break off, and pick and choose from our religion what they believe? Whats not fact about something like that?

Well, most religions are "break-offs." They may appear newer or older, but they are still chains of previous understandings of the world, of previous traditions. It's similar to how an army is more than a
collection of soldiers. It's also an ideal, a tradition and frame of mind. They might have some different teachings, different symbols and leaders, but many of the same precepts will be there.

Grandpa h.

[Oxymoronic]

There's freedom of religion and then there's beating your children, having sex with kids, and not giving anyone any freedom to kids and forcing them into things they don't wnat. While some people may argue that as long as the kids are happy it doesn't matter what goes on they can go back to there parents, right? Wrong in my opinion. Just because they think it's alright doesn't mean it is, the fact of the matter is they don't know any better and they think that what goes on in there is normal.


I also find it a bit ironic though that all of this was started by someone posing as a polygamist wife. But if they do the investigations properly I'm quite sure they'll find more then enough to justify action against the cult.

Before I end my debate/rant(depending on how you see it) I would advise reading a book called "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop which gives you a good idea of what happens in the FDLS community. She was a former member of the FDLS because she realized that it was a horrible life full of extreme brainwashing.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Oxymoronic There's freedom of religion and then there's beating your children, having sex with kids, and not giving anyone any freedom to kids and forcing them into things they don't wnat. While some people may argue that as long as the kids are happy it doesn't matter what goes on they can go back to there parents, right?

Plenty of Christian families and churches have child abuse and prejudices in them. Why not persecute their church organizations?

Grandpa h.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: grandpa Plenty of Christian families and churches have child abuse and prejudices in them. Why not persecute their church organizations? Grandpa h.

Why not indeed. Remember that what to you may seem ridiculous may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else.

If you're either severely beating your kids or having sex with them, then that's just not okay. Prejudice would be harder simply because its so widespread. Can't be done.

Still, if it was possible I'd do it. Teaching your kids prejudice is not right.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Thanatos Why not indeed. Remember that what to you may seem ridiculous may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else.

My point was that, by standards we've seen advocated here, general persecution of "abusive groups" would be plausible.

Grandpa h.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: grandpa Well, most religions are "break-offs." They may appear newer or older, but they are still chains of previous understandings of the world, of previous traditions. It's similar to how an army is more than a collection of soldiers. It's also an ideal, a tradition and frame of mind. They might have some different teachings, different symbols and leaders, but many of the same precepts will be there. Grandpa h.

How do you think my religion started exactly? What did it break off of? In any sence, I dont see how you can even see that abuse and underage, forced sex is tolerable, unless of course you were to have practiced it yourself.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Kakumei How do you think my religion started exactly? What did it break off of?

How did your religion start? By delusion.

As for your other point, it's just a personal attack, and a rather weak one.
I haven't defended Mormonism in any way whatsoever. I can refuse to persecute a group and still not advocate whatever they do.

Grandpa h.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Kakumei How do you think my religion started exactly? What did it break off of? In any sence, I dont see how you can even see that abuse and underage, forced sex is tolerable, unless of course you were to have practiced it yourself.

As I said, what to you may seem ridiculous may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else.

Grandpa is an anarchist, which is like a libertarian only with a better idea of what they want and less self-righteousness. In his ideal world the government does not exist and everybody minds their own business period.

This requires a level of faith in human nature that I do not have. It also requires a deep reverence for freedom that trumps all else. Call him chaotic neutral.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Thanatos As I said, what to you may seem ridiculous may seem perfectly reasonable to someone else.

My problem is this: Kakumei suggests it's more civilly responsible to go in and break these families and religious groups up. Quite simply, I disagree.

Grandpa h.

[Kakumei]

Quote by: grandpa My problem is this: Kakumei suggests it's more civilly responsible to go in and break these families and religious groups up. Quite simply, I disagree. Grandpa h.

So your an Anarchist? lemmie ask you something? Do you leave you house locked at night? How about when you at the store, do you lock your car?

[Matt W]

Let's stay on-topic here. You want to ask those questions, take it to PM.

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