Top Bush aides pushed for Guantánamo torture

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon your speaking of the electric shock experiments, yeah really heavy. Try seeing if the average person could rip someones fingernail clean off, and feel no remorse as the person screams in agony, then grabbing the person and ripping off another fingernail, how many do you think would be capable of that? bit of a difference don't you think? I don't know if you have ever heard a person scream in agony, I have and its still the most horrible sound I have ever heard.

I think he raises a valid point, in those experiments people gave strangers apparently fatal doses of electricity purely because another stranger in a lab coat asked them to.

To say that ripping off finger nails is completely different may be true, but its only relevant if you decide that the sole definition of torture is ripping finger nails off!

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Anmon Torture is a necessity to get info quickly, how 'civilised' and high minded we think we are now doesn't change this one bit. The left as usual squeal about Guantanamo, focusing all their hate and rage on the wrong target because its more sensational. Meanwhile the real info is gotten much quicker out of the media spotlight, by much more traditional, brutal, bloody and efficient methods, by the well paid CIA lackeys in Egypt. These guys will have the most adamant atheist praying to God for help, within half an hour. United States: trade in torture, by Stephen Grey

I...I mean...are you?...really? Torture is good and people who complain about it dislike and complain about the wrong things? Really? Have you read the Founding documents? Are you proud of the dirt you stand on or are you proud of what your country obstensibly stands for?

[Anmon]

Quote by: lsbskins1 I...I mean...are you?...really? Torture is good and people who complain about it dislike and complain about the wrong things? Really? Have you read the Founding documents? Are you proud of the dirt you stand on or are you proud of what your country obstensibly stands for?

The only reason your still standing on it, is because of hard actions by hard men in the past to defend it, and that included torture to get information.

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Anmon The only reason your still standing on it, is because of hard actions by hard men in the past to defend it, and that included torture to get information.

You have my attention. Inform me a little. Which men and which chunk of the past are you referring to?

[Anmon]

Quote by: Simonius I think he raises a valid point, in those experiments people gave strangers apparently fatal doses of electricity purely because another stranger in a lab coat asked them to. To say that ripping off finger nails is completely different may be true, but its only relevant if you decide that the sole definition of torture is ripping finger nails off!

The point is not so much what torture is, but how many people are capable of physically doing it to someone, anyone can push a button because its easy to do.
However ripping off someones fingernail with a a pair of pincers lifting it straight up being the favoured tool, or applying a blowtorch to the soles of someones feet, is a another matter all together.
Do you honestly think all those people who were seen in this silly study as possible torturers, could do this as well?

[Anmon]

Quote by: Thanatos You have my attention. Inform me a little. Which men and which chunk of the past are you referring to?

Your history, any countrys history that has a lot of sucess, only got their through winning wars.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: Anmon The only reason your still standing on it, is because of hard actions by hard men in the past to defend it, and that included torture to get information.

Yet, military men, studies and manuels in existence before GWB got hold of the reins of power consistently said that torture is ineffective. The victim says what he thinks you want to hear to make the pain stop and very often will tell you that his favorite person in the whole wide world eats babies for dinner if he thinks that will make the pain stop. If it is so effective, why has it been viewed as evil by every law based, civilized society for hundreds of years? Let me give you some links:

Study says torture doesn't work - UPI.com

Psychological Torture Just as Bad, Study Finds

U.S. Army Bans Torture Of Prisoners, New Manual Prohibits Forced Nakedness, Starvation And 'Water Boarding' - CBS News

[The Dunedan]

The thing is, though, that all those manuals and studies were written by actual intelligence experts, military people with front-line experiance in interrogating prisoners, psychologists...people who know what they're talking about. The Bush Administration is run by a crowd of mentally-masturbating REMFs (if they ever wore a uniform at all, which most of them conspicuously managed to avoid doing) who have no experiance with such matters, don't have any idea what they're talking about, and don't care.

These people are sadists, pure and simple. They lack the testicular or intestinal fortitude to get their rocks off by doing their own yanking, burning, beating and drowning, so they get moral bankrupts and mental midgets under their command to do it for them end excuse their actions to the public. I would -love- to know what sort of DVDs are kept in bottom desk drawers in Washington DC these days. The pros know torture doesn't work; this crowd of frimping amatuers who runs DC these days doesn't care. They could care less about getting reliable intelligence; their handling of the run-up to Iraq makes that very plain. Their civilian booster-buddies are just as bad. What these people care about is inflicting pain on other people, preferably "evil Hellbound sand-ni&&er terrorists" and getting away with it.

[grandpa]

Quote by: The Dunedan The thing is, though, that all those manuals and studies were written by actual intelligence experts, military people with front-line experiance in interrogating prisoners, psychologists... people who know what they're talking about.

Of course, whatever intelligence" is gathered needn't be used anyway. For example, before September 11th,
"French intelligence [and remember, we're supposed to utterly hate the French] supplied Washington a
dossier connecting Moussaoui to known terrorist groups".
frontline: inside the terror network: should we have: should we have spotted the conspiracy? | PBS

Grandpa h.

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon The point is not so much what torture is, but how many people are capable of physically doing it to someone, anyone can push a button because its easy to do. However ripping off someones fingernail with a a pair of pincers lifting it straight up being the favoured tool, or applying a blowtorch to the soles of someones feet, is a another matter all together. Do you honestly think all those people who were seen in this silly study as possible torturers, could do this as well?

If it was correctly marketed to them, perhaps.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Simonius If it was correctly marketed to them, perhaps.

lol I dont think its possible to correctly market ripping off fingernails, or blow torching to the genitals.
hahaha

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon lol I dont think its possible to correctly market ripping off fingernails, or blow torching to the genitals. hahaha

Hehe... well marketing is just about saying or doing the right things so that the mark stops thinking for themselves, but yea... I guess it would be tricky!

[Anmon]

not tricky, impossible.
You would have to be an unfeeling cold blooded psychopath to hurt people up close, anyone can hide behind a two way mirror and press a button.

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon not tricky, impossible. You would have to be an unfeeling cold blooded psychopath to hurt people up close, anyone can hide behind a two way mirror and press a button.

I am not too sure about that, people are different things in different contexts, morality is a funny thing.

[BorisTheFerret]

Yeah, aids can be real torture at times.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Simonius I am not too sure about that, people are different things in different contexts, morality is a funny thing.

wtf? does that uni campus psycho babble actually mean anything?
You can either rip off a fingernail with no remorse for the persons suffering, or you cant.

[Anmon]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Yeah, aids can be real torture at times.

do you have it?

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon wtf? does that uni campus psycho babble actually mean anything? You can either rip off a fingernail with no remorse for the persons suffering, or you cant.

I can't possibly believe that you found that sentence difficult to understand! It was simple English.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Simonius I can't possibly believe that you found that sentence difficult to understand! It was simple English.

not the words, the belief.
its just unrealistic uni campus rubbish

[Simonius]

Quote by: Anmon not the words, the belief. its just unrealistic uni campus rubbish

Well I have no idea where you are coming from because in my view it is entirely realistic and borne out by every day experiences. I can provide numerous explanatory examples.

PS: What do you have against educated people anyway?