Israel approves settlement growth

[Nono]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel approves settlement growth

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has approved a plan to build up to 750 new homes in a Jewish settlement in the West Bank. The project was first signed off in 1999, but stopped two years later after Palestinian labourers refused to go on. Israel's housing minister said the construction at Givat Zeev would address "the demographic needs of Jerusalem". (...)

That's the spirit!
The message is clear: The Israeli government wants endless strife.

[Charlatan]

Building houses for the poor, or building houses for the market? If the houses are being built for people, for free, then would they be biased on who owns them? I guess only Jewish people will be getting them if they are for free, but maybe the palestinian people will benefit too? It is hard to say whether the Israeli government will sell the houses to people from abroad, because the government is building them. In having them built by a contractor, then you's have houses for the market, and that would lead to people owning them privately, but that also means that people would have to pay for them, and people may not be able to afford them when they need them.

They are most certainly being built for the poor people, as people that already have houses won't need to live in government housing, as they can afford their own houses for themselves, and they would definitley br unique in the sense that they are not built for selling purposes. When the government builds a house, what happens? People move in and take care of the house themselves, from then on, it is theirs for a while and they don't need to pay for it at all, only the services that are allowed to the house, so people can afford to 'rent' it if they have jobs. But what about if you don't have a job? The government should also set up a few jobs in the area, things that they need done that no business venture is willing to plough into, like jobs you would find in the jails, for instance.

When Palestinians refuse to build, you need to ask why. They are being paid for it, but for 'political' reasons they refused to build the houses, which by Western standards is acceptable, so why not pay the people to build their own houses? The goings on of political disputes between Isreal and palestine means that there would have been a problem with the building of the houses, so why look to across the border? Well it was most likely because of the exchange rates for cheap labour, but you could find cheap labour with the unhoused of the Isreali settlement, who could not afford to say no. The problem is that these people are too weak from hunger to build the houses, so that is why able bodied people were sought. When the Palestinians refused to build any further, they were not walking away from a job that would have seen them through for a long while, one that would only last a few months. They were better off looking for a job elsewhere that could see them throuh for a longer period, which affords job stability, but the returned because they have no better options in their own country, which means that they would have to make money for as long as they could. If they were permanetly employed by the Israeli government, then they might have stayed to build houses in a country they didn't like.

Maybe the dispute was where some builders were a bad influence on the others? They could be slacking and say that they are sick of the Jews, who is with them? Because some builders were looking at unemployment, they could have taken a whole chunk of the workers with them because they were lazy, but didn't want to loose their job, so they unsettled a shaky situation, where they knew their reasons for leaving would need to be good. They also never had a problem with building in the begining, so from then their minds should have been made up that that was what they were going to do, and needed to make a scene to make sure they still got paid. So I guess we can rule out political motivation for them leaving, as they had no problem in the beginning, so any problems of that sort after they had signed on the dotted line might have been for other reasons.

In building houses for someone you don't like, you need to ask why there is a problem? I would guess that there was little religious pressure to worship their God, and also little contact where they would need to be nice to Jews. The heat must have gotten to them, and they rallied together to make a big incident that the government would look more favourably on than a few workers saying that they were lazy. It is easy to go off at a tangent and say that you are sick of working with the Israelis and are leaving for political reasons, rather than leave peacefully with little thought of how you are going to return.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Nono That's the spirit! The message is clear: The Israeli government wants endless strife.

Way to go, Olmert. Here, let's throw a little MORE gasoline on the fire. {{SIGH}}

Quote by: Charlatan Building houses for the poor, or building houses for the market?

Houses for idiot Jewish fundamentalist settlers willing to live in the middle of Apache territory.

.

[shrike]

Why shouldn't Israel build on its own territory?
For Muslim terrorist it doesn't matter for them Pisgat Zeev and Tel-Aviv its the same. They consider it Muslim land. So why should it matter for Israel?

[another day]

Quote by: shrike Why shouldn't Israel build on its own territory? For Muslim terrorist it doesn't matter for them Pisgat Zeev and Tel-Aviv its the same. They consider it Muslim land. So why should it matter for Israel?

This is the problematic attitude. Israel needs to be the "bigger man" in this scenario and stop this kind of provocative behaviour for the cause of peace. You believe Israel to be somehow the more rational, evolved side in this conflict, and yet you readily lower their standards with the justification that muslims are acting this way so why shouldn't israel.

[shrike]

Quote by: another day This is the problematic attitude. Israel needs to be the "bigger man" in this scenario and stop this kind of provocative behaviour for the cause of peace. uldn't israel.

For Muslim terrorists every behavior of Israel is provocative .No matter what Israel will do. If Israel will retreat they will say that force is working against Israel and will use even more force. Israel retreated from Gaza and what it got? Constant rocket fire.

You believe Israel to be somehow the more rational, evolved side in this conflict, and yet you readily lower their standards with the justification that muslims are acting this way so why sho

The appeasement tactic is never working with totalitarian regimes (ideologies).In ME only the strong survives. Our leftists think that they live in middle of Europe in 21 century.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Shrike Why shouldn't Israel build on its own territory? For Muslim terrorist it doesn't matter for them Pisgat Zeev and Tel-Aviv its the same. They consider it Muslim land. So why should it matter for Israel?

Because there's more involved that simply Muslim terrorists on one side and Israel on the other. Maintaining the West Back as a viable future Palestinian homeland is the only good faith Israel has in negotiating an eventual peace.

If Israel intends to simply keep whittling away at the West Bank, why not simply drop the charade of peaceful co-existance with the Palestinians, annex the West Bank and Gaza in the name of an elbow rooom and more defensible borders, expel anyone who resists and be done with it.

And buckle up for a bumpy night.

Quote by: Shrike For Muslim terrorists every behavior of Israel is provocative .

Again, there's more to it than just what terrorists think. This is provocative by MY standards, and gawd knows I'm one of Israel's few remaining defenders on this board.

.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Nono BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel approves settlement growth That's the spirit! The message is clear: The Israeli government wants endless strife.

I agree pretty poor timing of this. If Israel want to stand on the moral high ground this doesn't help!

[KayTwee]

Quote by: Sonart And buckle up for a bumpy night..

I hereby nominate Sonart for the Understatement of the Century award..

[shrike]

Quote by: Sonart . Because there's more involved that simply Muslim terrorists on one side and Israel on the other. Maintaining the West Back as a viable future Palestinian homeland is the only good faith Israel has in negotiating an eventual peace.

Pisgat Zeev is not part of Judea it's a neighborhood in Israeli capital.So why should Israel shouldn’t build there?

If Israel intends to simply keep whittling away at the West Bank, why not simply drop the charade of peaceful co-existance with the Palestinians, annex the West Bank and Gaza in the name of an elbow rooom and more defensible borders, expel anyone who resists and be done with it.

All of Jerusalem is annexed including all the Arab neighborhoods. Pisgat Zeev is part of annexed territory.

Again, there's more to it than just what terrorists think. This is provocative by MY standards, and gawd knows I'm one of Israel's few remaining defenders on this board.

You view and other personal views is pretty much irrelevant.

[GHook93]

Quote by: shrike Pisgat Zeev is not part of Judea it's a neighborhood in Israeli capital.So why should Israel shouldn’t build there? All of Jerusalem is annexed including all the Arab neighborhoods. Pisgat Zeev is part of annexed territory. You view and other personal views is pretty much irrelevant.

That all might be true, but it was poor timing. There had to be some spot on the non-disputed side for this project, no?

[Nono]

Quote by: GHook That all might be true.

Then again, it might not.

Some day -- if both sides ever come to their senses all at once -- there will be some agreement along the lines of the Geneva Accord. This may require the Israelis to stop being so damned pigheaded about East Jerusalem.

Otherwise the Palestinians and the Israelis are in for an endless shitstorm. Man, I sure hope they enjoy it.

[shrike]

Quote by: nono Then again, it might not.

What not? Israel is annexed it.

Some day -- if both sides ever come to their senses all at once -- there will be some agreement along the lines of the Geneva Accord. This may require the Israelis to stop being so damned pigheaded about East Jerusalem.

The Palestinians don't want Geneva accord http://pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2003/p10b.html.They don't want peace they proved it time and time again. They want endless stifle. Every retreat of Israel by our stupid leftists is weakness and victory for Muslim terrorists. The best example is Ethnic cleansing of Gaza Jews that brought victory to Hamas.

Otherwise the Palestinians and the Israelis are in for an endless shitstorm. Man, I sure hope they enjoy it.

When one side don't want any solution except destruction of other side. What do you propose to do?

[Nono]

Hey shrike, can't you do anything but chant the official slogans? How about a bit of reasoned debate? You sound like a broken record: rant'n'chant, rant'n'chant.

They want endless stifle.

They ain't alone.

The trouble, shrike ol' pal, is that people like you take such a two-dimensional view of the issue, and of the people you're going to have to deal with sooner or later.

As long as you go on chanting your mantra, you'll stay stuck in the groove of that broken record, and the blood will continue to flow.

Have fun.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Nono Hey shrike, can't you do anything but chant the official slogans? How about a bit of reasoned debate? You sound like a broken record: rant'n'chant, rant'n'chant. They ain't alone. The trouble, shrike ol' pal, is that people like you take such a two-dimensional view of the issue, and of the people you're going to have to deal with sooner or later. As long as you go on chanting your mantra, you'll stay stuck in the groove of that broken record, and the blood will continue to flow. Have fun.

If Hamas only will agree to the death of every Jew, the destruction of Israel and if PA demands a return of all the refugees and refuses to dismantle the refugee camps then you can make only one inference that they only want "endless strife!"

Israel has offered to give and give, but the Palestinians never seem to be flexible and the radicals in control Gaza demand Israel mass-suicide.

[shrike]

Hey shrike, can't you do anything but chant the official slogans? How about a bit of reasoned debate? You sound like a broken record: rant'n'chant, rant'n'chant.

Do you have something to answer to my arguments or you just know that I am right?

[Matt W]

Quote by: GHook93 If Hamas only will agree to the death of every Jew, the destruction of Israel and if PA demands a return of all the refugees and refuses to dismantle the refugee camps then you can make only one inference that they only want "endless strife!" Israel has offered to give and give, but the Palestinians never seem to be flexible and the radicals in control Gaza demand Israel mass-suicide.

Yes, GHook, whatever you say....

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Hamas lays out truce conditions

[shrike]

Quote by: matt BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Hamas lays out truce conditions

I see no reason in Hamas truce. It will only help it to recover and accumulate more arms. They will break when they fill they ready for another cycle of violence. The real truce will be possible when Hamas and other terrorist organizations will abandon their violent way entirely.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Nono Then again, it might not. Some day -- if both sides ever come to their senses all at once -- there will be some agreement along the lines of the Geneva Accord. This may require the Israelis to stop being so damned pigheaded about East Jerusalem.

Why is it that Israel has to become less pigheaded. Its the Palestinians who are irrationale stating that Israel must take on million of enemies of the state.

Nasser said best, "If the Refugees return Israel is destroyed from within!"

It is funny the Palestinian aren't demanding one state they are demanding 2 states and you call Israel pigheaded!

Otherwise the Palestinians and the Israelis are in for an endless shitstorm. Man, I sure hope they enjoy it.

Hamas enjoys it. Without the "struggle" they can't stay in power!

[GHook93]

Quote by: Matt W Yes, GHook, whatever you say.... BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Hamas lays out truce conditions

Man the European left is all the same. Israel can do no right and Islamic terrorist are not tht bad! Why are they asking for a truce? It has nothing whatsoever to do with your highly inaccurate inferences. They want the truce, because Israelis current operations in Gaza WERE effective in hurting the Hamas terrorist regime. They want a truce, because Israel blooded their nose more then they thought Israel was going to do. I embrace the truce and hope it passes. But I am not naive enough to think they want peace. Rather they probably want to regroup and reload.

Matt here is what the group you admire thinks about peace! If the Jews were preaching this I am sure you would condemn them to the highest degree. Pretty ironic!

Hamas considers all of pre-1948 Palestine to be the Palestinian homeland. This includes present-day State of Israel — as well as the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — as an inalienable Islamic waqf or religious bequest, which can never be surrendered to non-Muslims. It asserts that struggle (jihad) to regain control of the land from Israel is the religious duty of every Muslim (fard `ain).

Hamas does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state

several Hamas candidates insist that the charter is still in force and often called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" in campaign speeches. On January 25, 2006, after winning the Palestinian elections, Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar gave an interview to Al-Manar TV denouncing foreign demands that Hamas recognize Israel's right to exist.[54] After the establishment of Hamas government, Dr Al-Zahar stated his "dreams of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it...I hope that our dream to have our independent state on all historic Palestine (including Israel). This dream will become real one day. I'm certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land"

Hamas views the Arab-Israeli conflict as "a religious struggle between Islam and Judaism that can only be resolved by the destruction of the State of Israel".[

Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this is from a highly biased pro-Hamas wikie author!