Iran may be biggest threat to Iraq - U.S. general

Quote by: shrike There is a war going now. And Israel doing maximum to keep human rights of enemy civilians according to relevant conventions. What exactly nuclear treaty Israel broke? What kind of frivolous reasons like this? It's a common practice in every country to deny access to security materials to people that not authorizedto view it but the judge does take it in account in due process The problem with terrorist propaganda that now one check it but i do Israel admits air strike on Syria

I understand that Israel takes acute measurments against serious offences such as attempted murder, but imprisoning a 14 years old minor for 4 months, beating him up, torturing him, because he threw a few bunch of stones on a watch tower is just ludicrous. And yes it is normal that countries deny lawyers access to documents of security nature, but since when was tossing a handful of stones is of security matters. As for breaching treaties I meant breaching the IAEA's inspections and monitoring - excuse the misapprehension-

The information surrounding Israel’s nuclear weapons are somewhat vague, primarily because it has always denied its possession to such weapons and has never allowed any inspectors near its facilities.

In June 27th , 2004 Mr. Mohamed El Baradei , the head of International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) paid Israel an inspection visit only for him to be shut down by the Israeli officials. A senior official commented on his visit by saying that Israel “has no intention of changing its policy”. Many countries are opposing IAEA’s regulations against them having ongoing nuclear activities while overlooking Israel’s possession of nuclear weaponry , The problem with many people is that you lack full media coverage, your media tends to elude the truth, so all you get are missing pieces of jigsaws.

[Magnus]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Israel could easily crush hezbollah if it was willing to suffer the PR consequences of huge numbers of "civilian" deaths and a bloody offensive, but it isn't

Whats this hogwash? Israel was in lebanon from 82 to 02.
They had 20 years to "crush" hezbollah. what they did was kill about 20,000 lebanese. this is nonsense in the purest since

Hezbollah is tactically smart, hiding behind civilians, etc., but that doesn't make you powerful

Proove this nonsense.

THey have no way of having any affect beyond ther own corner of the world, and Israel would most likely crush them if given the chance in a global conflict

More hogwash, there is now an iraqi hezbollah in the works,
and there is a hezbollah presense in south america and the US in the form of support only.
Its so odd how the US example in Iraq doesnt seem to translate for most people to Israel.
Here, let me break it down.
US = super power
Iraqi = insurgents

Israel = Super power
Hezbollah = insurgents

Israel will "win" as soon as the us "wins" in iraq

[Anmon]

Quote by: e_sistani Ibut imprisoning a 14 years old minor for 4 months, beating him up, torturing him, because he threw a few bunch of stones on a watch tower is just ludicrous. And yes it is normal that countries deny lawyers access to documents of security nature, but since when was tossing a handful of stones is of security matters.

Quite a simplistic way to put it, as if tossing stones playfully like a kid does sometimes, Its not quite like that but, its more like sharp edged stones flung hard at soldiers heads, if it connects can kill you just as easily as a bullet does.
If it was your head that was the target, I'm sure you would see it as a security matter immediately.

[shrike]

Quote by: e_sistani I understand that Israel takes acute measurments against serious offences such as attempted murder, but imprisoning a 14 years old minor for 4 months, beating him up, torturing him, because he threw a few bunch of stones on a watch tower is just ludicrous. And yes it is normal that countries deny lawyers access to documents of security nature, but since when was tossing a handful of stones is of security matters

Please bring links from reliable sources (poorpalestinians.com is not such source).Also no one deny that there was excessive use of force of several individuals that serve in Israeli Security forces. but there is bad people in any organization. Every complain of abuse is investigated .Israel justice system of one of the best in ME and comparable to other justice system in liberal democracies.

. As for breaching treaties I meant breaching the IAEA's inspections and monitoring - excuse the misapprehension-The information surrounding Israel’s nuclear weapons are somewhat vague, primarily because it has always denied its possession to such weapons and has never allowed any inspectors near its facilities. In June 27th , 2004 Mr. Mohamed El Baradei , the head of International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) paid Israel an inspection visit only for him to be shut down by the Israeli officials. A senior official commented on his visit by saying that Israel “has no intention of changing its policy”. Many countries are opposing IAEA’s regulations against them having ongoing nuclear activities while overlooking Israel’s possession of nuclear weaponry , The problem with many people is that you lack full media coverage, your media tends to elude the truth, so all you get are missing pieces of jigsaws.

Post links to the quoted material according to the forum rules. Israel didn't signed any treaty that allow IAEA inspection. But maybe I wrong exactly what treaty Israel is signed and not complying with it?

Quote by: Anmon Quite a simplistic way to put it, as if tossing stones playfully like a kid does sometimes, Its not quite like that but, its more like sharp edged stones flung hard at soldiers heads, if it connects can kill you just as easily as a bullet does. If it was your head that was the target, I'm sure you would see it as a security matter immediately.

Ofcourse, only difference is that they are tossing stones to memeber of forces with bullet proof armours and fully geared up... see the difference now?? would those soldiers get hurt because of few stones?? ofcourse not. Would the soldiers up on the watchtower would get hurt?? ofcourse not. Do put in account that those are children, beating and torturing children was never an acceptable matter, The convention ont he rights of child states that the detention of a child must be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of times - gulf news, yet Israel refuses to do that, and whomever tries to defend himself gets an extended time in jail. I have seen footages of Israeli children tossing rocks at Palestinians why not lock those up and torture them as well?

[Magnus]

Quote by: Anmon Quite a simplistic way to put it, as if tossing stones playfully like a kid does sometimes, Its not quite like that but, its more like sharp edged stones flung hard at soldiers heads, if it connects can kill you just as easily as a bullet does. If it was your head that was the target, I'm sure you would see it as a security matter immediately.

Look how he makes the rock sound as lethal as possible, this is the level of absurdity the debate on this subject has come to.

The SHARP EDGED STONE was THROWN at FULL SPEED with the FULL MIGHT of the MAN at the poor non-helmeted HEAD of the armed soilder, what choice would the soilder armed with an M16 have in a DIRE LIFE THREATENING situation at this, faced with the prospect of being STONED TO DEATH ??

Quote by: shrike Please bring links from reliable sources (poorpalestinians.com is not such source).Also no one deny that there was excessive use of force of several individuals that serve in Israeli Security forces. but there is bad people in any organization. Every complain of abuse is investigated .Israel justice system of one of the best in ME and comparable to other justice system in liberal democracies. Post links to the quoted material according to the forum rules. Israel didn't signed any treaty that allow IAEA inspection. But maybe I wrong exactly what treaty Israel is signed and not complying with it?

With all due respect I did not quote a source, surly not richshenanigans.com. I have never came across that link or website, I am not pointing to a single source but rather have conducting a research concerning Iran and Israel's nuclear weaponary a few months ago and have read many documents and articles before reaching a verdict, I do not remember the exact sources, so I apologize, as for your claim that Israel has one of the best Judicial system, I respect that, but I don't think it's military courts are any fair towards children's trials.

[shrike]

With all due respect I did not quote a source, surly not richshenanigans.com. I have never came across that link or website, I am not pointing to a single source but rather have conducting a research concerning Iran and Israel's nuclear weaponary a few months ago and have read many documents and articles before reaching a verdict, I do not remember the exact sources, so I apologize, as for your claim that Israel has one of the best Judicial system, I respect that, but I don't think it's military courts are any fair towards children's trials.

The thing it you should bring sources to the facts that you assert because anyone can say anything and say that he read it somewhere.
I cannot relate to the information that you post without adequate sources

Quote by: shrike Please bring links from reliable sources (poorpalestinians.com is not such source).Also no one deny that there was excessive use of force of several individuals that serve in Israeli Security forces. but there is bad people in any organization. Every complain of abuse is investigated .Israel justice system of one of the best in ME and comparable to other justice system in liberal democracies. Post links to the quoted material according to the forum rules. Israel didn't signed any treaty that allow IAEA inspection. But maybe I wrong exactly what treaty Israel is signed and not complying with it?

Quote by: shrike The thing it you should bring sources to the facts that you assert because anyone can say anything and say that he read it somewhere. I cannot relate to the information that you post without adequate sources

I meant to say that Israel is backing up USA's plan of pushing other states like Iran to sign a nuclear treaty yet it refuses to sign one itself, maybe the word is not breach excuse my language, English is not my first language :) as for backing up my points here is a link I hope it would satisfy you BBC NEWS | Middle East | UN nuclear chief to visit Israel

another quotation : Jerusalem Post (June 27) - A senior Israeli diplomatic official responded to El-Baradei's statement by saying that Israel "has no intention of changing its policy." . . One government official said that when El-Baradei visits, he will be told politely that while Iran is continuing in its attempts to gain a nuclear capability, and soon after Libya developed a weapons of mass destruction capability under the nose of the international community, "it is not exactly the time to play around with your deterrence."

[Anmon]

[=e_sistani;495345]Ofcourse, only difference is that they are tossing stones to memeber of forces with bullet proof armours and fully geared up... see the difference now??

Well first its not 'to' its 'at' theres a slight difference.
So do you suggest these soldiers say aww look at the cute widdle arab kiddys throwing rocks at us, we don't need these helmets and flak jackets were wearing for reasons that may possibly have nothing to do with rock throwing kiddys at all.....They are not specifically wearing this combat gear for kid throwing rocks, its more for bullets, mines exploding etc you know those things?
If stupid kids choose to throw rocks at these soldiers, you can hardly expect the soldiers to strip their armour off, throw their weapons down and throw rocks back.

would those soldiers get hurt because of few stones?? ofcourse not.

Their not being hurt may have something to do with the armour and helmets, and guns to fire back.

Do put in account that those are children, beating and torturing children was never an acceptable matter, The convention ont he rights of child states that the detention of a child must be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of times - gulf news, yet Israel refuses to do that, and whomever tries to defend himself gets an extended time in jail.

So how do you feel about the palis who strap explosives to these kids and send them to checkpoints and buses?
You must be overwhelmed with rage about that surely.

I have seen footages of Israeli children tossing rocks at Palestinians why not lock those up and torture them as well?

Why would you lock up and torture your own people?

[shrike]

I meant to say that Israel is backing up USA's plan of pushing other states like Iran to sign a nuclear treaty yet it refuses to sign one

Iran is already signed the treaty and should comply it or step out. So there no USA plan of pushing Iran to sign it

, English is not my first language :)

Its Ok, English is not my first language too

[Anmon]

[=Magnus;495346]Look how he makes the rock sound as lethal as possible, this is the level of absurdity the debate on this subject has come to.

well magnus believe it or not, the kids do look for the sharpest rocks and throw them as hard as they can, and aim for the head. This is a brutal part of the world, these kids live with the prospect of death every day, in a place that would probably come across as a touch harsh to your delicate soft western senses.
If you were getting rocked and had an M16 I highly doubt you wouldn't use it.

[Domino]

You people clearly don't have much experience with stones. It does not have to have a sharp edge. It does not have to be thrown with the full force of a man. It doesn't take much of a stone or much of a throw to break a skull open, and it is sure to hurt like hell, even if it doesn't kill you. God forbid they knock you unconscious, as you will not likely be given time to awaken.

Regardless of how unbalanced the armaments, no one can just stand there and take a stoning. It sucks to have bullets as your lowest level response, but you will have to do something to make them stop. One could hope to have some effective, nonlethal weapon handy.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon well magnus believe it or not, the kids do look for the sharpest rocks and throw them as hard as they can, and aim for the head. This is a brutal part of the world, these kids live with the prospect of death every day, in a place that would probably come across as a touch harsh to your delicate soft western senses.

It's brutal thanks in large part to US tax dollars. What America and its allies have done to the Arab world is unforgivable.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

[Domino;495376]You people clearly don't have much experience with stones. It does not have to have a sharp edge. It does not have to be thrown with the full force of a man. It doesn't take much of a stone or much of a throw to break a skull open, and it is sure to hurt like hell, even if it doesn't kill you. God forbid they knock you unconscious, as you will not likely be given time to awaken.

I know, but the leftys think its like a marshmallow or something hitting you or something, they are so lived on campus their whole life, they have no sense of what is real I think.

Regardless of how unbalanced the armaments, no one can just stand there and take a stoning.

Apparently a lefty can.

It sucks to have bullets as your lowest level response, but you will have to do something to make them stop. One could hope to have some effective, nonlethal weapon handy.

I think its better- harsh as this will sound, for the safety of your country's people to just shoot them, they obviously have no fear, and in a few short years will have graduated if they haven't already to attacking you with guns and bombs.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon I know, but the leftys think its like a marshmallow or something hitting you or something, they are so lived on campus their whole life, they have no sense of what is real I think. Apparently a lefty can.

Nobody said "it's like a marshmallow." But compared to heavy duty weapons, there is practically no comparison.

Grandpa h.

[Anmon]

Quote by: grandpa It's brutal thanks in large part to US tax dollars. What America and its allies have done to the Arab world is unforgivable. Grandpa h.

Agreed, but the Arabs aren't exactly innocent in all this either, oil sales billionaire saudis etc understand?

[Anmon]

Quote by: grandpa Nobody said "it's like a marshmallow." But compared to heavy duty weapons, there is practically no comparison. Grandpa h.

So don't attack then doh

[grandpa]

Quote by: Anmon Agreed, but the Arabs aren't exactly innocent in all this either, oil sales billionaire saudis etc understand?

I didn't say Arabs are without blame. But to place most of the blame on the general Arab population is simply an inversion of reality.

Grandpa h.