Turkish troops enter north Iraq

[grandpa]

Quote by: Ghumanto It would be interesting what story US and UK will cook up to invade Iran . I guess once US manages Turkey to cool down, they'll discover gross human rights abuse towards Kurds by Iran and Syria and sought a war !!

It's obvious that Kurds are regarded merely as pawns by the U.S. But I suppose that's the way military strategy works; everyone's a pawn and practically nothing's sacred.

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

@ Matt W

The United States continues to support Turkey's right to defend itself from the terrorist activities of the PKK and has encouraged Turkey to use all available means, to include diplomacy and close coordination with the Government of Iraq to ultimately resolve this issue," Smith said.

Link : Turkey launches major Iraq incursion - CNN.com

[Matt W]

I see, the US encouraged Turkey to co-ordinate this with the Iraqi government. Did they?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Matt W I see, the US encouraged Turkey to co-ordinate this with the Iraqi government. Did they?

:-)
You want me to start searching Internet for that particular issue.
Am I correct ?

[Matt W]

Quote by: Rainbow :-) You want me to start searching Internet for that particular issue. Am I correct ?

That is what I said in the first place....

Quote by: Me Turkey has talked about it, and authorised it internally, yes...but officially communicated to the Iraqi government? Really? Do tell...

[Rainbow]

@ Matt W

Hours before the vote, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki called his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, to say Iraq’s government was determined to halt “terrorist activities” of the PKK on Iraqi territory, his office said. A close aide to al-Maliki said later that the two leaders agreed the Iraqis should deal with PKK fighters based inside Iraq and the Turks would take care of guerrillas operating in Turkish territory.

Link : Turkey OKs incursion into Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

P.S.
Do it yourself, next time, please.
I am not an errand-boy/girl.

[Nono]

In any case, here we have the region's closest de-facto allies of the US and Israel (the Iraqi Kurds) having their territory invaded by a longstanding member of NATO because there's no other way to prevent them (the Iraqi Kurds) from aiding and abetting terrorists.

A pretty pass.

[Ibn_Sina]

Turks are the oppressors. Not just in Turkey but also in Syria, Lebanon and Iran (shameful but I do acknowledge it), Kurds have been treated unfairly.

Solidarity with the Kurds!

[rmnunez]

I think these expressions of solidarity with the Kurds are hypocritical, its only because Turkey, a US ally in NATO represses them that anyone is concerned. Kurds are repressed in Iran and Syria too, they were under Saddam in Iraq as well, but we didn't hear of this solidarity.

Unless Kurds in Iran, Iraq and Syria can join those in Turkey the prospects are poor for a successful resolution. If Turkish Kurds seceded, they'd aid and abet their brethren in neighboring countries destabilizing the region with more terrorism. With the occupation of Iraq it would be dangerous to draw in Iran and Syria with border problems. The prospects are good for greater Kurdish autonomy in Iraq and this could become a model for Turkey and others, but it should be a gradual process after thing in Iraq are more stable.

[grandpa]

Quote by: rmnunez I think these expressions of solidarity with the Kurds are hypocritical, its only because Turkey, a US ally in NATO represses them that anyone is concerned. Kurds are repressed in Iran and Syria too, they were under Saddam in Iraq as well, but we didn't hear of this solidarity.

You didn't here it from whom? Ibn Sina?

Anyway, here's something:
When the media covers Kurds, it often does not show the
causes of their rebellions against Turkey. Still, to make coverage more complex than it usually is, the Kurds are not typically demonized. It seems America doesn't want to offend either Turkey or the Kurds in any significant way, so it keeps its relative distance from examining the controversy too deeply. It's not like Saddam Hussein where the US had a demonizing agenda.

Grandpa h.

[Ibn_Sina]

Well I did acknowledge that Kurds were badly treated, and still being stigmatised in Iran.

What's so hypocritical about it?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Well I did acknowledge that Kurds were badly treated, and still being stigmatised in Iran. What's so hypocritical about it?

Nothing really. And I'd even suggest the Kurds in Turkey were treated no better than the blacks in South Africa. If people care for each other's well-being, they should care about the Kurdish plight.

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Ibn_Sina Kurds have been treated unfairly.

That is true and I agree.

[Matt W]

P.S. Do it yourself, next time, please. I am not an errand-boy/girl.

As is the norm on these forums, Rainbow; you made a claim, it is up to you to back it up.

[rmnunez]

No gramps, I haven't seen anything on these threads from you or any other poster ever making reference to the plight of Kurds beyond Turkey and (since the occupation) in Iraq. I haven't seen anyone condemning the Iranians or the Syrians for whatever the Kurds have suffered in those countries. I'd appreciate a link to anything on any of these threads relating to the suffering of Kurds other than in either Turkey or (since occupation) Iraq.

[RealRockingham]

Quote by: Nono I'm struck by the way your views on the matter accord with those of Saddam Hussein, G.

Im only new, but isn't that a rather unnecesary and offensive comment

[grandpa]

Quote by: rmnunez No gramps, I haven't seen anything on these threads from you or any other poster ever making reference to the plight of Kurds beyond Turkey and (since the occupation) in Iraq. I haven't seen anyone condemning the Iranians or the Syrians for whatever the Kurds have suffered in those countries.

Ibn Sina noted this...so what's the problem? Do you think I'm somehow loyal to Iran? That's funny if it's what you think because, if anything, I'd actually draw relief from the establishment of a secular-humanist society in Iran. I'd also be greatly relieved by a fundamental change in our society.

However, I'm not going to pretend Bush cares about Turkey, Kurds, Iranians or Syrians.

Grandpa h.

[RealRockingham]

The ignorance of Kurds of Syria and Iran may also be because Syria has the fewest Kurds and Iran, as far as I know, has a rather more complacent relationship with the Kurds, in no small part because the Kurds are Iranians. The Iranian people are not just those that speak Persian, and the Persian, though the most significant and influential nation in Iran, are only one of several Iranian people, not all of them encompassed by Iranian territory(for example, the Tajiks, who are lingusitically Iranian at least)

I fully expect a barrage of criticism from those who do not realize that "Iranian" is a cultural-lingual grouping, in the same way that the Latin world is..... the difference being, the "Iranian" people have a single country claiming to represent them as a whole, rather then just one language or sub-nation of said grouping(which in the Latin example are the Italians or Spanish).

[Nono]

Quote by: RealRockingham Im only new, but isn't that a rather unnecesary and offensive comment!

Well, Rocky, that's probably because you're too new to be familiar with Hook's thought processes. Hook is one of those rah-rah US-is-always-right-about-everything types who (he can correct me if I'm mistaken here) fully supports Boy George's disastrous decision to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam.

One of the many-many uncomfortable consequences of that decision is that the Kurds are now in the driver's seat. And if, as Hook fears, that nasty ol' Obama ever gets his slimy hands on the levers of power (in which case Hook has threatened to leave the country, no shit) and pulls the US out of Iraq, well Hook thinks the Kurds will go the route of Kosovo. And of course he's right.

Should have thought about that (and a thousand other things) earlier, boys.

And guess what, Rocky, this was exactly Saddam's rationale: keep the Kurds in their place or the whole country will fall apart.

Be offended if you wish, but Hook is very supportive of the idiots who got y'all into this mess. He deserves to be brought face to face with the resulting ironies.

[RealRockingham]

I wasn't claiming it to be inaccurate.... merely that it could have been put in a somewhat nicer way. Having a similar opinion on a topic to Saddam is one thing, actually comparing someone to a bloodthristy madman guilty of genocide is another. Its kind of like calling a German natinionalist "Hitler"