Canada places U.S., Israel on torture watch list

[The Decider]

Quote by: Nono OK, D. Article 10 of the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment says this: "Each State Party shall ensure that education and information regarding the prohibition against torture are fully included in the training of law enforcement personnel, civil or military, medical personnel, public officials and other persons who may be involved in the custody, interrogation or treatment of any individual subjected to any form of arrest, detention or imprisonment." International treaty obligations are useless if they aren't enforceable domestically. The civil servants who drew up the manual were implementing Canada's international obligations. The Harper government has blocked that, which amounts to a breach of Canada's treaty commitments. Look up the word "arbitrary".

Again, what Canadian law forces the Harper government and the foreign ministry to replace the US on the list? Does the UN treaty supercede executive control over foreign ministry manuals?
What Canadian law can force such a change in policy?

In any case, until the Harper government and the Foreign Ministry replace the US on the list, Canada has not put the US on the list. This thread is well-intentioned but premature.

[Nono]

Quote by: Decider Again, what Canadian law forces the Harper government and the foreign ministry to replace the US on the list?

OK, D, I can see you're kinda slow on the uptake here. I'll try to explain it in a manner even you can understand. The law is international law. Canada prides itself on being a law-abiding world citizen. Unlike the US, it doesn't sign international treaties just for the pure effin' hell of it, so it can spit in people's faces afterwards. It really takes the resulting obligations seriously.

So, it the Torture Convention says you have to train your people in its provisions, Canada trains 'em.

The UN treaty supercede executive control over foreign ministry manuals?

(laughs) Yes of course. Canada has a much different form of government from that of the United States. It doesn't have an "executive branch" that exists independently of the "legislative branch".

If Canada undertakes an international obligation, that's it. And if Stephen Harper undermines Canada's status as law-abiding, it's because he's a redneck asshole.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Nono OK, D, I can see you're kinda slow on the uptake here. I'll try to explain it in a manner even you can understand. The law is international law. Canada prides itself on being a law-abiding world citizen. Unlike the US, it doesn't sign international treaties just for the pure effin' hell of it, so it can spit in people's faces afterwards. It really takes the resulting obligations seriously. So, it the Torture Convention says you have to train your people in its provisions, Canada trains 'em.

Therefore, Harper is under some sort of government criminal investigation right now? Is the Parliament in the process of forcing Harper to reinstate the US on the terror list? Until those actions are taken "Canada" hasn't placed the US on any terror list.

Quote by: Nono (laughs) Yes of course. Canada has a much different form of government from that of the United States. It doesn't have an "executive branch" that exists independently of the "legislative branch". If Canada undertakes an international obligation, that's it. And if Stephen Harper undermines Canada's status as law-abiding, it's because he's a redneck asshole.[/b]

Oh, pardon me, wise one. But the Canadian Executive Branch, though very different from America's, still makes foreign policy in accordance with the Foreign Minister and the House of Commons--and since Canadian cabinet ministers have lost influence over executive decisions in recent years, and until the House of Commons forces the minority Harper government to change course, nothing changes unless Harper says so.

Laugh all you want, Nono, but unless and until the Harper government places the US on the terror watch list, it's not on the list. Name-calling and ridicule won't make it so.

Your thread is premature.

[Jack]

The insults are not necessary to debate the topic. Stay on topic.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Nono]

Quote by: Decider Therefore, Harper is under some sort of government criminal investigation right now? Is the Parliament in the process of forcing Harper to reinstate the US on the terror list?

On topic: Is George Bush being impeached by the US congress? No. Are Republican organizers facing ciminal proceedings for the electoral shenanigans in Ohio in 2004? No.

These are all failings in the rule of law. If Harper is allowed by the Canadian parliament to get away with ignoring international law, that too is a failure to uphold the law.

If you drive down the street at 120 MPH but don't get into trouble, that doesn't somehow mean that you didn't exceed the speed limit.
It's a failure of law enforcement.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Nono On topic: Is George Bush being impeached by the US congress? No. Are Republican organizers facing ciminal proceedings for the electoral shenanigans in Ohio in 2004? No. These are all failings in the rule of law. If Harper is allowed by the Canadian parliament to get away with ignoring international law, that too is a failure to uphold the law. If you drive down the street at 120 MPH but don't get into trouble, that doesn't somehow mean that you didn't exceed the speed limit. It's a failure of law enforcement.

Nice speech, but Bush has not been impeached and was inaugurated as president in January 2005. Unhappy as I may feel, those facts remain facts. An impeachment never happened and Bush is the recognized leader of our nation at home and overseas.

Likewise, Canada SHOULD place the US on its torture watch list but it has not done so no matter how many times you call it fact. The Canadian government makes those decisions, not you or me.

"Should" =/= "Fact"

Your thread title is premature.

[Nono]

Yeah I thought it was a kinda good speech if I do say so myself ...

Afraid I don't agree with you, though. Bush may be the de facto pres. But he ain't the de jure pres, since the law wasn't obeyed and its violators weren't brought to justice. The law was ignored on both occasions.

Likewise, Harper illegitimately changes the list. The opposition parties that constitute the majority in parliament have other fish to fry and don't want to be blamed for precipitating yet another federal election. So Harper gets away with it.

Thus the list is changed contrary to the law. The actual list is as Harper orders it to be. But it isn't legitimately so. As I said, they're displaying contempt for the law.

[Rainbow]

Canada's foreign ministry has put the United States and Israel on a watch list of countries where prisoners risk being tortured and also classifies some U.S. interrogation techniques as torture, according to a document obtained by Reuters on Thursday.

I expect for the Canada's Foreign Minister to declare Canada as the first state - in Mankind's history, to root out imbecility completely, soon.

[Nono]

Don't hold yore breath. (They're trying to "rooth" out bad spelling first.)

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Nono Don't hold yore breath. (They're trying to "rooth" out bad spelling first.)

Try to focus on the thread's main subject, instead of keyboard layout.
On the other hand, this is not that bad idea.
How about :
- ruth
- riith
- rppty
???

[Nono]

Anyway, I see you've corrected the spelling in your previous post.

I'd love to concentrate on the subject, if only I could make sense of your post.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Nono Anyway, I see you've corrected the spelling in your previous post. I'd love to concentrate on the subject, if only I could make sense of your post.

I am pleased you completed basic lessons with reference to keyboard layout, finally. :-)