Wesley Snipes tax protest case heads to court

[Rainbow]

Quote by: UnemployedBum Maybe if Snipes went to jail....they could put a webcam on his head and we'll see if he really does know any martial arts!

Wesley is the best martial arts master, ever seen lately.
Black belt : ripping off IRS

[tivodan1116]

Interesting development:

The Associated Press: Jury Acquits Wesley Snipes of Tax Fraud

Action star Wesley Snipes was found not guilty of federal tax-fraud and conspiracy charges Friday, but was convicted on three misdemeanor counts of failing to file a tax return.

...

Snipes' lawyers argued that he was a victim of crooked advisers, and the jury seemed to believe it. Co-defendants Eddie Ray Kahn, the founder of a tax protest group, and Douglas P. Rosile, an accountant who lost his licenses, were convicted Friday by the same panel of tax fraud and conspiracy. Both face up to 10 years in prison.

Well maybe that's the right result then. He gets the minor charges, but the idiots who convinced him of all this "there's no law that says you have to pay income taxes" nonsense get the heavy charges.

[Rainbow]

It is hard to believe that Wesley dealt with such imbeciles.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rainbow It is hard to believe that Wesley dealt with such imbeciles.

Is that sarcasm? LOL

[rmnunez]

I think the "ignorance of the law" ought to be a defence when it comes to the rather complex and lengthy US Tax Code, particularly if its violators are being prosecuted on criminal charges. To be criminally liable in such a case would require intentional, knowing and intelligent violation, but what I've read of the Tax Code is difficult to understand, requires cross reference to arduous definitions and consideration of numerous former determinations before one could figure out the applicable rule, this is why people resort to tax accountants and other specialists. In these circumstances, to have interpreted the Code erroneously does not seem criminal.

[tivodan1116]

Ignorance is sort of a defense - the government has to prove you "willfully" evaded taxes to get criminal convictions.

This is how "tax denier" nuts claim they "beat" the government on their criminal cases - essentially, they succeed in proving to the jury or judge that they are so nuts they actually believe the nonsense they are pushing. It's a modified insanity defense.

[Roxdog]

Wow....rampant cheerleading of the criminal IRS. Amazing. Yes, taxing the common man's sweat is pure Americana. Taxation is freedom, don't ya know....

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Roxdog Wow....rampant cheerleading of the criminal IRS. Amazing. Yes, taxing the common man's sweat is pure Americana. Taxation is freedom, don't ya know....

I fail to see how the IRS is criminal. I also fail to see how anyone here was "cheerleading" them.

Aside from a hacky appeal to emotion fallacy, I don't really see anything in that post.

[Roxdog]

I fail to see how the IRS is criminal.

Hum, stealing private property was a crime, last I checked...

I also fail to see how anyone here was "cheerleading" them.

Your failure to see something doesn't mean it isn't there...

Aside from a hacky appeal to emotion fallacy, I don't really see anything in that post.

WTF ever. What I said is apt and not difficult to understand if you are capable of real thinking...

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Roxdog Hum, stealing private property was a crime, last I checked...

Show me where the IRS committed such an act.

They are given authority under the law and Constitution to collect taxes. Therefore, by operation of law, their behavior is not stealing.

Your failure to see something doesn't mean it isn't there...

Ok. The rules of debate here say that when someone poses something to you, you respond to the thought, not just make a flip remark.

Where in this thread is anyone "cheerleading" the IRS?

WTF ever. What I said is apt and not difficult to understand if you are capable of real thinking...

Ah yes, the makings of the "sheeple" argument.

What you said was nothing but an appeal to emotion consisting of a jingoistic call that the IRS or taxation is somehow "Un-American".

I assure you, especially when it concerns federal income taxation, I am quite capable of "real thinking". Apparently Mr. Snipes and his advisers are not, otherwise they would not have found themselves in this situation. As proof I offer the fact that he fell for a nonsensical and thoroughly debunked "theory" of tax law.

[Roxdog]

Show me where the IRS committed such an act.

They do it everyday.

They are given authority under the law and Constitution to collect taxes.

Um, please show me where the Constitution mentions the Internal Revenue Service....lol

Therefore, by operation of law, their behavior is not stealing.

In the Orwellian sense, you have a point...

Ah yes, the makings of the "sheeple" argument.

If/when the shoe fits.

What you said was nothing but an appeal to emotion consisting of a jingoistic call that the IRS or taxation is somehow "Un-American".

Govt theft runs contrary to the vision of the founders. Simple basic research highlights this pretty well.

I assure you, especially when it concerns federal income taxation, I am quite capable of "real thinking". Apparently Mr. Snipes and his advisers are not, otherwise they would not have found themselves in this situation. As proof I offer the fact that he fell for a nonsensical and thoroughly debunked "theory" of tax law.

It isn't bebunked just because a bunch of bootlickers say it is. So far, you have shown you are not capable of real thinking. Condoning and justifying the income tax (the 2nd plank of the communist manifesto) is unAmerican and tyrannical.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Roxdog They do it everyday.

How? I am sick of this "OMG IRS IS STEALING WTF????" arguing all the time.

If the IRS has violated some law, out with it. Otherwise, it's not stealing.

Um, please show me where the Constitution mentions the Internal Revenue Service....lol

The Constitution authorizes the federal government to lay and collect taxes. The means by which our elected officials have chosen to do so is by setting up the tax statutes (26 U.S.C. et al), and granting, again by statute, to the IRS the power to enforce those laws.

This isn't really sophisticated stuff. Someone with a high school civics class should understand how this works.

In the Orwellian sense, you have a point...

Uh... In a LEGAL sense I am correct. What does Orwell have to do with it?

Govt theft runs contrary to the vision of the founders. Simple basic research highlights this pretty well.

And yet you fail to provide any.

Anyway, government theft might run contrary to the vision of the founders, but government collecting revenue through taxation does not. Hence, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1.

It isn't bebunked just because a bunch of bootlickers say it is.

Oh... so now you're going to try to make the whole "income tax is illegalzzzzz" argument? Sure, go ahead and make it, I could use a laugh.

So far, you have shown you are not capable of real thinking.

LOL... Because I'm the one saying that government actions explicitly authorized by the Constitution are stealing?????? It would be hysterical if I didn't think you were serious.

Condoning and justifying the income tax (the 2nd plank of the communist manifesto) is unAmerican and tyrannical.

Uh huh. Says you. And who are you again?

[Roxdog]

If the IRS has violated some law, out with it. Otherwise, it's not stealing.

Um, again, stealing private property is not legal. Even if The Pope, Chewbacca, or Allah say it is.....it isn't.

The Constitution authorizes the federal government to lay and collect taxes. The means by which our elected officials have chosen to do so is by setting up the tax statutes (26 U.S.C. et al), and granting, again by statute, to the IRS the power to enforce those laws.

It allows them to lay and collect SOME taxes. And yes, I realize our corrupt and bought-and-paid -for legislature has aided in the theft of the American people. No need to point out something so obvious.

This isn't really sophisticated stuff. Someone with a high school civics class should understand how this works.

I know how it works, hence why I am schooling you on it....

Uh... In a LEGAL sense I am correct. What does Orwell have to do with it?

No. Stealing private property is not legal. Saying that theft is legal is Orwellian.

Anyway, government theft might run contrary to the vision of the founders, but government collecting revenue through taxation does not. Hence, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1.

More Orwellian newspeak to justify govt theft.

Oh... so now you're going to try to make the whole "income tax is illegalzzzzz" argument? Sure, go ahead and make it, I could use a laugh.

Laugh all you want. I bet it echoes reall nicely down there in your mamas basement. But laughing all by yourself won't make govt theft legit...

LOL... Because I'm the one saying that government actions explicitly authorized by the Constitution are stealing?????? It would be hysterical if I didn't think you were serious.

Most of their actions are not authorized by the constitution.

Uh huh. Says you. And who are you again?

Um, says the people that created the country and drafted its laws....and common sense. A government stealing wealth from people to build condos for prairie dogs and study the effects of bear sperm on bumblebees isn't right...no matter what you say.

[Roxdog]

Joe Banister interviews Wesley Snipes defense team:

http://mp3.wtprn.com/Banister/0803/2..._Banister1.mp3

http://mp3.wtprn.com/Banister/0803/2..._Banister2.mp3

[Compugasm]

Writing laws to make anything but your total compliance the only legal action, doesn't make the laws just and fair by any means.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Roxdog Um, again, stealing private property is not legal. Even if The Pope, Chewbacca, or Allah say it is.....it isn't.

You're not getting it. It's not stealing. It's collecting revenue, which is authorized under the tax law.

Specifically, in Wesley Snipes' case, it was a tax on his income.

It allows them to lay and collect SOME taxes.

Yes, and the definition of "some" is set by the elected legislature.

In this case, the IRS did exactly what it is authorized under the law to do to collect the income Mr. Snipes had earned.

If you disagree with the tax code, or the tax rates, or what is taxed, that is another argument for another thread. Saying the IRS is "stealing" when they are doing, exactly by the book, what Congress tells them to do, is just ridiculous and does not advance any sort of discussion of taxation.

And yes, I realize our corrupt and bought-and-paid -for legislature has aided in the theft of the American people. No need to point out something so obvious.

Obviously I do, since you keep blaming the IRS and accusing them of "stealing", when in fact our legislature, that WE elected, writes the laws that the IRS operates under.

Government is US. We're only "stealing" from ourselves. What's the quote from the Framer about what happens when the people realize they can vote themselves largess from the Treasury?

No. Stealing private property is not legal. Saying that theft is legal is Orwellian.

Apparently you don't understand the legal definition of theft. Something cannot be theft if it is authorized by statute.

Laugh all you want. I bet it echoes reall nicely down there in your mamas basement. But laughing all by yourself won't make govt theft legit...

You're new here. Maybe you should read the rules about personal insults?

Most of their actions are not authorized by the constitution.

Of course they are. In terms of taxation, the IRS' actions are authorized by Article I, Section 8, and the 16th Amendment. Name one action (a SPECIFIC action) that was not authorized. Stealing is not specific. Name a date, time, place, action.

Um, says the people that created the country and drafted its laws....and common sense.

Uh huh. The people that created the country wrote the part of the Constitution that authorizes the government to collect taxes.

A government stealing wealth from people to build condos for prairie dogs and study the effects of bear sperm on bumblebees isn't right...no matter what you say.

Well, they're not stealing, they're using the powers they have been granted by the people that voted them there.

I think government is far too big. I think it wastes a lot of money. But I also place the blame on the proper people - the voters. You don't get far trying to change things by starting out saying "OMG THE INCOME TAX IS ILLEGALZZZZ AND THE IRS IS STEALINGGGGGG!!!!!"

The income tax is valid, legal, and mandatory (and yes, it taxes "wages"). I personally don't like it, but in seeking to change it, I start from reality, not some fantasy land.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Roxdog Joe Banister interviews Wesley Snipes defense team: http://mp3.wtprn.com/Banister/0803/2..._Banister1.mp3 http://mp3.wtprn.com/Banister/0803/2..._Banister2.mp3

Joe Banister... now THERE'S a reliable source...

Quote by: Compugasm Writing laws to make anything but your total compliance the only legal action, doesn't make the laws just and fair by any means.

No, but it makes them laws so long as they are passed by the means prescribed by the Constitution. The way to get rid of them is not to ignore them or violate them, like Mr. Snipes did, the way to get rid of them is to vote in legislators who promise to get rid of them.

Again, do I think the tax code is unfair? Of course, which is why I want to make a career out of finding ways to reduce people's tax burdens and getting them out of trouble with the IRS.

But I also think the tax code is a validly passed law. To the extent I disagree with it I lobby my representatives to change it and vote against them if they don't.

[Rainbow]

Am I to understand that not paying taxes is acceptable and Wesley did the right thing ?
If "yes" : how any state would manage its functionallity ?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Rainbow Am I to understand that not paying taxes is acceptable and Wesley did the right thing ?

You're not to understand that from me.

To the extent others have made that argument, they are wrong.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: tivodan1116 To the extent others have made that argument, they are wrong.

That is what I try to express.