U.S. says Iranian gunboats harassed warships

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa Do you have any proof otherwise?

Wait, it's not job to provide proof of the US's non-imperialistic actions in Iraq. The point was made that we WERE being imperialistic...he should provide solid proof of that claim.

Quote by: grandpa Historically, the US has been very imperialistic. Military force might have wiped out most of the "Native American" population, had disease not worked so well.

Completely different time and circumstances. Irrellevant..

Quote by: grandpa The US had its clutches in Mexico and Central America (still does, in fact). The modern Middle East was significantly a European invention (in fact, the very term "Middle East" itself was).

Nothing of which confirms any imperialistic actions in Iraq.

[Matt W]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | US-Iran stand-off not mere propaganda

The admission by the US Navy that Iranian speedboats might not have been the source of an apparent threat to attack American ships in the Gulf is a significant move that raises new fears about the chances of unintended clashes in the region. It has worrying similarities with the incident in 1988 when, in the same Strait of Hormuz, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian airliner, having failed to monitor the radio traffic properly.

[Dieval]

Still more...

Quote by: article The Pentagon has released a video showing small Iranian boats swarming around U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz. In the recording, a man threatens in accented English, "I am coming to you. ... You will explode after ... minutes." Fallon said Friday that the U.S. was still trying to determine the source of the threatening radio call but remained convinced that it was related to the actions of the Iranian boats. "The voice is very strange. I don't know whether it came from the boats or one of the shore stations," he said in a telephone interview from Central Command headquarters in Florida. "But the timing of it is pretty suspicious. In my mind it is related to the maneuvers." "It certainly doesn't sound like a third party that just happened to say something threatening at that moment," he added. The radio call was heard over an open frequency often used by mariners to identify themselves and avoid accidents. FOXNews.com - U.S. Commander: Continued Iranian Harassment Could Trigger Persian Gulf Conflict

It does seem awfully suspicious that this communication happened at the same time these boats started in on our ships....

[Matt W]

Certainly. But, as the BBC article points out, because the US forces can't prove it, they've handed another propoganda victory to the Iranians. Dubbing it over the video was an attempt at spin too far...

[thx1138]

Quote by: Dieval If "Imperialism" was the goal of our foreign policy, you might have a point. But it isn't, so you don't. If I lived in Iraq, under Saddam, I'd welcome foreign troops coming in to remove him.

When you promote coups in foreign countries, install puppet governments,invade countries, have at least seven hundred foreign bases around the world, patrol every ocean, and spends close to 650 billion dollars on it's military that is Imperialism.

And for what? Just to keep the U.S. safe... give me a break. The U.S. is no different than the European Imperialistic powers of old, of course most of its citizens don't even benefit from all this which is very sad.

(but they love to wave the flag, put on cowboy boots and pretend that their government cares about them... all the government cares about is your taxes it doesn't give a damn about you or your family.)

Back on topic, I have no love for the government of Iran, but they have a right to monitor war ships next to their country, just like any other nation.

I don't trust the U.S. Navy not to provoke an event just to have an excuse to attack Iran. Not because of some conspiracy but because of history...

USS Maine, Lusataina, and the Gulf of tonkin.

[shrike]

Quote by: thx I don't trust the U.S. Navy not to provoke an event just to have an excuse to attack Iran. Not because of some conspiracy but because of history...

Do you trust Iran?

[thx1138]

Quote by: shrike Do you trust Iran?

Of course not, just like I don't trust Israel.

Not the people but the media and the press releases from the governments.

There was a time when people watching the news would see what was really happening (or just a brief view)

Enemy Image (2005)

[shrike]

Quote by: thx Of course not, just like I don't trust Israel

What Israel has to do with this thread? Please stop derailing,

Not the people but the media and the press releases from the governments

That’s the reason that I trust US much more because there is a free press there where at Iran there is no such thing.
Source
Reporters Without Borders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

There was a time when people watching the news would see what was really happening (or just a brief view) Enemy Image (2005)

I don't have a time now to 90 min movie I may watch it latter. Can you summarize the point it makes?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Nothing of which confirms any imperialistic actions in Iraq.

So longterm and recent military invasion in Iraq has nothing to do with imperialism?
Well, what is imperialism?

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition imperialism Acquisition by a government of other governments or territories, or of economic or cultural power over other nations or territories, often by force. Colonialism is a form of imperialism.

The US has not acquired possession of Iraq, including even setting up a new government?

Grandpa h.

[Matt W]

*sighs* Can we try and stay on-topic here?

[thx1138]

Quote by: shrike That’s the reason that I trust US much more because there is a free press there where at Iran there is no such thing. Source Reporters Without Borders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I don't have a time now to 90 min movie I may watch it latter. Can you summarize the point it makes?

well, if you do get 90 minutes to watch this you'll see the press is not as free as you think in the U.S.

What Israel has to do with this thread? Please stop derailing,

I'm just showing I don't take sides, you had inferred that I trusted Iran's media, I do not. Media is controlled in every country maybe in different ways, but it is still controlled.

[thx1138]

Quote by: grandpa So longterm and recent military invasion in Iraq has nothing to do with imperialism? Well, what is imperialism? The US has not acquired possession of Iraq, including even setting up a new government? Grandpa h.

Well of course you remember the U.S. was not invading and occupying it was liberating Iraq for the good of the Iraqi people. You see that is the big difference. Invasion is don't by evil countries and Iiberating is done by good countries... surely you can see that?

It's amazing the level of BS people will believe.

[Matt W]

I repeat. Let's stay on-topic.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[GHook93]

It look very odd that these Iran speed boats would drop barrels into the water near American warships. It could have been high-grade explosive. Was there any confirmation that these were indeed imperial guardsman or members of the Iranian army? If not these could easily be smugglers in fear of being boarded!

There are a lot of good explanation, just be thankful that not hawkish commander made any rash attacks.

[thx1138]

Media stories can be very easly manipulated you really have to ask questions about what you see.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/po...=1&oref=slogin

"Thank you, Bush. Thank you, U.S.A.," a jubilant Iraqi-American told a camera crew in Kansas City for a segment about reaction to the fall of Baghdad. A second report told of "another success" in the Bush administration's "drive to strengthen aviation security"; the reporter called it "one of the most remarkable campaigns in aviation history." A third segment, broadcast in January, described the administration's determination to open markets for American farmers. Advertisement To a viewer, each report looked like any other 90-second segment on the local news. In fact, the federal government produced all three. The report from Kansas City was made by the State Department. The "reporter" covering airport safety was actually a public relations professional working under a false name for the Transportation Security Administration. The farming segment was done by the Agriculture Department's office of communications.

How can you tell what is really and not? The major news outlets have been caught in the past making up fake stories this could just be another one.

The New York Times > Washington > Image > Ready-Made 'News'

[grandpa]

Quote by: thx1138 Media stories can be very easly manipulated you really have to ask questions about what you see.

Exactly. And keep in mind these network pundits have the attitude that,
"If you disagree with our viewpoints, you're against freedom and with the terrorists!"
When there is a serious scandal they'll probably downplay it, shrug it off and wonder what the fuss was about.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Gulf prankster possible message source

....the Navy Times, a weekly newspaper published by the Gannett company, quoted several veteran sailors as speculating the transmission could have come from a heckler widely known among sailors in the region by the ethnically insulting term "the Filipino Monkey." The newspaper, which serves the Navy community, said U.S. sailors in the Persian Gulf have heard the prankster — possibly more than one person — transmitting "insults and jabbering vile epithets" on unencrypted frequencies. "Navy women — a helicopter pilot hailing a tanker, for example — who are overheard on the radio are said to suffer particularly degrading treatment," the newspaper said Sunday. "Several Navy ship drivers interviewed by Navy Times are raising the possibility that the Monkey, or an imitator, was indeed featured in that video." U.S. Navy officials at Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain could not immediately be reached for comment. However, Navy officials have said they were unsure where the transmission came from. The threat, however, ratcheted up tensions in the incident, which began when Iranian patrol boats swarmed around three U.S. Navy vessels near Iranian waters in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has denied that its boats threatened the U.S. vessels and accused Washington of fabricating video and audio it released. Iran's government has released its own video, which appeared to be shot from a small boat bobbing at least yards from the American warships. The Navy Times quoted Rick Hoffman, a retired captain, as saying a renegade talker repeatedly harassed ships in the Gulf in the late 1980s. "For 25 years there's been this mythical guy out there who, hour after hour, shouts obscenities and threats," he said. "He could be tied up pierside somewhere or he could be on the bridge of a merchant ship," Hoffman said.

An interesting possibility.

[thx1138]

An interesting possibility.

Yes, but one that will be over looked by most.