Pakistan's Bhutto assassinated at rally

[Sonart]

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Quote by: grandpa But I wouldn't necessarily say the US government totally "loses." Maybe they don't want political assassinations running rampant, but in pure military-industrial terms the government benefits (expands) "by putting a stop" to such acts. That's one reason I generally am not in favor of assassinations (that and simple moral decency).

Even our current administration can't possibly be that short-sighted. A nuclear armed Pakistan collapsing into chaos against the allies of al-Qaeda is the absolute worst possible nightmare for the United States.

Thinking we could actually instigate such a scenerio on the bet that we could sell Pakistan enough arms to keep things just under enough control...

... that's insanity.

Our President may be arrogant, mule-headed and totally incompetent. But insane? Nah.

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[HelioPrime]

I wouldn't rule out the other political parties inside Pakistan. She is not the only Ex leader to return and certainly not the only one seeking to win in an election.

Another candidate could have undertaken this knowing full well many would quickly blame the existing president, and thus leave him with less people to contend with.

[thx1138]

A nuclear armed Pakistan collapsing into chaos against the allies of al-Qaeda is the absolute worst possible nightmare for the United States.

For the people of the United States yes it would, but the leaders could use something big about now. Funds have been getting harder to scare out of congress, this could be a new channel to flush money into the War on Terror.

Funny Iran getting nuclear fuel from Russia doesn't seem to be that big of a story now, maybe people were getting sick and tried of it, so, lets move the fear focus onto Pakistan.

[thx1138]

YouTube - Frost over the World - Benazir Bhutto - 02 Nov 07

watch this interview with her... was it a slip of the tongue or was she trying to send a message out just after the attemt on her life.

At 5:41 she starts giving names.

[Chaossaber314]

That was indeed strange.

[Nono]

Quote by: Chancellor It was probably Musharaf or whatever his name is that was behind it.

Well, the expert has spoken.

[Cl3ver]

Quote by: thx1138 YouTube - Frost over the World - Benazir Bhutto - 02 Nov 07 watch this interview with her... was it a slip of the tongue or was she trying to send a message out just after the attemt on her life. At 5:41 she starts giving names.

I might just be deaf and/or stupid. But I don't think she really named any names of who she thinks was behind it. It just seemed like she said she thinks its someone who had dealings with the man who beheaded the British and American tourists, and the man who murdered Usama Bin Laden.

The TV explanations here in America and the headlines everywhere else are polar opposites. It seems that mainstream says "TALIBAN DID IT! Where Usama come out come out where ever you are! BANG BANG!" and everyone else says "Wait, lets put some pieces together and realize that too many things add up".

It may have been an extreme Islamic group, but it just like the FBI's attack on the leaders of any rights movement here in America.

Government doesn't like the way you are progressing, or want to progress, and they go to their little minions to shoot you up and then blow up the evidence.

Mmm Mmm Mmm tastes like a repeat

[rmnunez]

Her assasination worries me. It was unconventional in that the perpetrator first shot her and then detonated himself suggesting this time they wanted to be really sure they got her (remember how the prior suicidical attempt went).

But I'm not convinced this was an Al Qaeda (or similars) effort rather than some Musharaff-concocted scheme to remove opposition, though it is odd such a ploy be undertaken by suicide.

The fact the country is in chaos a few days before elections suggests Musharaff will renew and probably repress more. This won't bring the fundamentalists any closer to those nukes, even if they were the ones behind her assasination.

The assasination, Pakistan's nukes and the turmoil there, the suggestion it was fundamentalists and the fact they're on the verge of elections and Musharaff will very likely prevail now that opposition has been so violently removed -all play better for Republicans than Democrats in the US campaigns.

[thx1138]

though it is odd such a ploy be undertaken by suicide.

How do we know it was a suicide bomber and a device set nearby?
I would be very sceptical of the reports.

Now governments can pull off anything and then just say... It was us it was Al Qaeda.

[Matt W]

Well, here are some eyewitness accounts for you...

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Bhutto death: Witness accounts

[melpomene]

Quote by: Prometheus Now here is a machiavellian idea for the bleeding hearts chew on. Maybe that type of barbarism is nescessary for keeping primitive countries in check. Is it possible that we as a more advanced society should let other nations not as far along alone so that they can develop to self government over time like european (american) government did?

There is nothing "advanced" about American society at all.........

[thx1138]

Quote by: Matt W Well, here are some eyewitness accounts for you... BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Bhutto death: Witness accounts

Another eyewitness - also unnamed - was even closer: "We were standing right in front of her. In that instant a young man, fair, about 20 to 21 years of age, he fired a Kalashnikov aiming at BB [Bhutto]. "He was standing beside me, moved a little back, so I thrust my hand out at him and just then there was a blast. Asked if it was the suicide bomber himself that he'd seen, he replied: "I can't really say. Was it him or someone else, I can't say." A member of Ms Bhutto's PPP party, Mohammad Zaman, told the BBC: "The meeting went perfectly well. She delivered her speech, she came down the stage and got on the land-cruiser. "She started coming out, we heard three [shots] fired, and after that the bomb blast went [off].

It could still have been a remote controlled device, I think a real investagation would have to be done, which doesn't have much of a chance.

[Cl3ver]

Quote by: thx1138 It could still have been a remote controlled device, I think a real investagation would have to be done, which doesn't have much of a chance.

I had the same feeling, and it seems that they are just sealing the envelope on this case with a move like
Pakistan government skips autopsy, shifts story on how Bhutto died

The governments story keeps shifting.

They didn't bother with an autopsy (which may be some type of religious thing as to not desecrate the body... but I have no idea.).

They are saying that al Qaida leader Baitullah Mehsud was behind the assassination and that they have transcripts of him talking about it.

"It was a spectacular job. They were very brave boys who killed her," Mehsud said, according to the transcript.

Of course it could've been an al Qaida job... and maybe this guy was behind it. From that statement it doesn't seem like he is taking credit, but instead just showing how he felt about the situation.

I think Bhutto said it right in her video after the first assassination attempt. Something to the effect of, If you wanna kill the snake, take out the ISI...I mean head.

Oh... and they also said that not only did they bury without autopsy but I guess even

Pakistan's caretaker prime minister, Mohammadmian Soomro, told the Cabinet that Bhutto's husband had insisted on no autopsy.

[xyzer]

What I wondered when she returned was what motivated Bhutto to reenter politics (the PPP Party) in Pakistan. She served as prime minister and was deposed. Her husband was put in prison for corruption.

I suggest she had a suicide wish? Musharraf and others tried to assure her safety but she pressed on and insisted on public exposeure??

[thx1138]

I suggest she had a suicide wish? Musharraf and others tried to assure her safety but she pressed on and insisted on public exposeure??

This is like the Mob coming to your Candy Store and asking if you want any protection... but it's gonna cost yah, if you know what I mean.

[tinybear]

She got away with too many assassination attempts. That made her over-confident. Well, I guess her luck finally ran out this time.

[rmnunez]

It was reported local broadcasters have shown a video where 2 figures are seen attacking 'BB'.

Musharaff (refered to by Bush as "Perv") is a military dictator known for his repression, but strongly supported by the US concerned with Islamic fundamentalists in the vicinity (Osama is presumed in neighboring Kashmir).

BB''s gender itself is a red flag for Islamic fundamentalists and a herald of change in leadership for Muslims everywhere, she is obviously a better candidate than the military dictator, and has spoken out against Islamic fundamentalism.

Whether BB was removed by 'Perv' or Osama we can't tell for sure. I think its unusual for a suicide bomber to shoot first and then explode himself because this would indicate a priority in his aim which would seem to clash with the suicide afterwards.

I think it would be much more unusual for the government to have recruited a suicide bomber to take BB out and train him to first shoot at her and then blow himself up -that seems really strange.

[rmnunez]

Pakistan's PPP party leadership bypassed in favour of BB's 19-year-old son, appointed ceremonial leader and her husband ("Mr. 10%") in charge of the party's day-to-day affairs.

[Nono]

Gawd! Pakistan, India, Bangladesh ... You really have to laugh. As long as there's a bloodline in there somewhere, put him/her/it on the ticket.

Quote by: rmnuez Whether BB was removed by 'Perv' or Osama we can't tell for sure.

And is it really that easy to tell them apart? There has long been a close tactical alliance between Islamo-nuts and the Pakistan military. And Musharaf rules at the pleasure of the latter.

I think its unusual for a suicide bomber to shoot first and then explode himself because this would indicate a priority in his aim which would seem to clash with the suicide afterwards.

It may be unusual, but by no means incomprehensible. If previous attempts have failed owing to the indiscriminate nature of the device, shoot first and then blow yourself up as an 'insurance' measure.

Jeez, what a place.

[rmnunez]

shoot first and then blow yourself up as an 'insurance' measure

It still seems incomprehensible to me. Suppose you're the trainee, you've learned how to assemble and disassemble an AK-47 blindfolded, can clear the chamber, change the magazine and have qualified on the firing range, then they teach you how to pack your self-detonating explosive vest, hookup all the dynamite fuses to the triggering device, how to put it on and properly conceal it under some local flowing garment with care not to accidentally set it off or interfere with the triggering device, so you're all set.

Now the mission requires you attack a specific target with your machine gun, this is simple, you aim at the target and fire your weapon until the target is destroyed. After you're done you're supposed to trigger the explosive vest -for what? Would that be because despite your aiming at the target and hiting it (with a machine gun), you may have missed? Or maybe you've been shooting at the target and aren't sure you got it, change clips, send off another 40 rounds, reload or detonate? How does the trainee decide whether another clip will be better than suicide?