Sitting Bull's people break away from US

[tivodan1116]

Just another reason why we should close all of the reservations now and fold the Indians into the rest of the U.S. population.

The purpose of the reservations was to reserve their way of life. Sorry, but that's not owning casinos and driving around in Monte Carlos with the windows tinted and "dreamcatchers" hanging from the rearview.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Just another reason why we should close all of the reservations now and fold the Indians into the rest of the U.S. population. The purpose of the reservations was to reserve their way of life. Sorry, but that's not owning casinos and driving around in Monte Carlos with the windows tinted and "dreamcatchers" hanging from the rearview.

It's more about self determination.


There also the aspect of relieving themselves of "guilt by association" with our government.


I used to interact with a guy on another forum who represents one of the tribes in Western British Columbia.


The trend seems to be about genuinely establishing property, and water rights that would allow them to be independent from the rest of the nation.


I applaud their efforts, and hopefully their rewards.

[tivodan1116]

Maybe it's different out west.

In the east, it's about getting a casino, running drugs, and living off of welfare. The sooner they close the reservations and absorb those people into normal society, the better.

[nerdvincent]

Same for the Quebec (read previous posts), but I hope it's diffferent with Sioux.

[xyzer]

Hey Sonar...my post

Important event, my a**! Its a media scam designed to titillate the ignorant and uninformed. The usual press distortion...

made no reference to the mainstream media, as you assert?

Perhaps you need to get it right and wipe the veil of intent from your cerebral mix? The media in general thrives on this sort of reporting..making mountains out of molehills is what I call it. Suggestive headlines, usually followed by little if any back up facts? Designed, as I mentioned to titillate the ignorant and reenforce the preconceived attitudes of the subjective.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: xyzer Hey Sonar...my post made no reference to the mainstream media, as you assert?

It didn't??.....

--"Here is the kind of story that really proves how little the >>>MSM<<< bothers to research things, how they often simply print glorified press releases without doing any real "journalism,"--

What do you imagine MSM means? Mean Spirited Manatees?

But thanks for the apt description of everything I dislike about the Internet blogosphere and its faux news boutiques. So like I said, until this story plays Vegas -- hits the MSM -- it's nothing but some aging radicals sending out a toothless press release.

.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Just another reason why we should close all of the reservations now and fold the Indians into the rest of the U.S. population. The purpose of the reservations was to reserve their way of life. Sorry, but that's not owning casinos and driving around in Monte Carlos with the windows tinted and "dreamcatchers" hanging from the rearview.

Of course thats what its about, economic freedom. You'd be happier if they were poor? Well sorry other people having money gets you so butt hurt, but thats their business. OBVIOUSLY economic freedom is integral to freedom, so don't listen to this guy! He's a racist.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Suburbanite Of course thats what its about, economic freedom.

When did I say economic freedom?

And if you knew anything about reservations and Indian gaming, you would know that Indian casinos do not provide "economic freedom" for any but a tiny minority of the population they are supposed to help.

You'd be happier if they were poor?

I'd be happier if they were fully integrated into mainstream American society, instead of being marginalized. That has been (and continues to be) the ticket to economic freedom and real success as a group for every single ethnic group that has done well in America.

Well sorry other people having money gets you so butt hurt, but thats their business.

Again, as I said, it's not "their" business for the vast majority of reservation-dwellers who can never hope to own or manage a casino.

OBVIOUSLY economic freedom is integral to freedom, so don't listen to this guy!

Yes, and economic freedom is not gained by isolationism, since it creates a limited market for your products and services.

He's a racist.

And upon what is this personal attack in violation of Volconvo's rules based?

[xyzer]

Agree tivo! Assimilation if the only way to go. The reservation system has led to all sorts of extra legal stuff..e.g. hunting whales,.unlimited access to fishing and shoreline access, casinos exempt from state laws, etc. Instead of encouraging assimilation into the mainstream this discourages it.
Even on the reservations Indians can sell their properties to non tribal people. It's a joke!

[grandpa]

Quote by: xyzer Agree tivo! Assimilation if the only way to go.

You clearly want them to earn the respect of their conquerers.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Zeebadee The native Americans are on their reservations for one reason and one reason only: They couldn't, or wouldn't protect what they were in possession of. The people advocating unrestricted immigration really ought to take note of that fact.

"Fact" is often a cute way of terming outrageous lies.

What Native Americans often call genocide clearly applies to the history of the American system. But your claim here is ludicrous for a major reason: Immigration laws do not prevent imperial or colonial states from conquering others. In fact, that's been one of their major functions. In order to colonize people, a key method is to establish borders, alter their cultural values, bribe any of their leaders and control the movement of the population. This is true for America today, and it was true for border relations between America and Mexico, where disputes significantly occured over the issue of slavery (Mexico had abolished it before the United States, and didn't want the institution to encroach into Mexico).

Roughly the same can be said of other conquering governments that did not necessarily have smallpox on their side (France, Britain and other countries which established strong borders and often created slavery-like conditions -- during the Boer War, for example, Britain set up concentration camps).

Your line of argument will indeed confuse anyone with a comprehensive grasp of history, as well as anyone who does not simply implicate the victims in the crimes of their conquerers. If we take upon ourselves the responsibility of doing what's right, we will abolish the borders and let people quite freely determine how they should live. Anything else will look like the familiar pattern with familiar results.

Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Ken Carman So reservations are a myth? I drive by a hell of a lot of myths yearly.

Oh, the reservations exist but they're still territory held by the geopolitical entity known as United States of America.

Note... source Yes, I did notice the last sentence, and that is what I feel is wrong and should be corrected.

Well, at least you didn't cite Wikipedia.

Sovereign means... source Either they are sovereign states... or not. The US wants it both ways. It's a hypocritical, self serving contradiction in need of a remedy. Either we give them real status as a sovereign state or we send them back where they came from. Wait a minute....

But that's just it, they're not really sovereign - especially not after being made American citizens in 1924.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: xyzer Agree tivo! Assimilation if the only way to go. The reservation system has led to all sorts of extra legal stuff..e.g. hunting whales,.unlimited access to fishing and shoreline access, casinos exempt from state laws, etc. Instead of encouraging assimilation into the mainstream this discourages it. Even on the reservations Indians can sell their properties to non tribal people. It's a joke!

How dare anybody have a different lifestyle than those decadent Americans, eh?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Milton Bradley How dare anybody have a different lifestyle than those decadent Americans, eh?

It's not a dare. It's economics. The most successful ethnic groups in the United States have been the ones who have blended in and "melted" into the American society.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Chancellor Oh, the reservations exist but they're still territory held by the geopolitical entity known as United States of America. Well, at least you didn't cite Wikipedia. But that's just it, they're not really sovereign - especially not after being made American citizens in 1924.

Then we should end the reservation system... they sink or swim just like any other immigrant group (that would be "funny," if it absolutely wasn't) or live on the streets like the rest of the "bums."

No, I'm not advocating any of that. But the mere existence of the reservations proves that they're not just citizens, and not just another group of nations, but treated as whatever when it suits our convenience.

Though I cite it occasionally, I'm not really a big fan of Wiki. Too many editors.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: tivodan1116 It's not a dare. It's economics. The most successful ethnic groups in the United States have been the ones who have blended in and "melted" into the American society.

They didn't immigrate here with the goal of fitting in.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Milton Bradley They didn't immigrate here with the goal of fitting in.

And? So what? Are you referring to tribal people or immigrants?

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: tivodan1116 And? So what? Are you referring to tribal people or immigrants?

I'm addressing your desire to dictate conditions to a culture older than your own, that pre-existed your nation, and your laws in the land you now occupy.


Funny, with that line of questioning quoted above, I tend to think you were fishing around to see if you could hand a term like "racist" on me, but it looks like you're the one exhibiting signs of having cultural superiority issues.


Why should they have to assimilate?

[Zeebadee]

Why don't we just finish the job we started on them?

[xyzer]

Sonar..while we are in the business of nit picking, I'll repeat my post

Important event, my a**! Its a media scam designed to titillate the ignorant and uninformed. The usual press distortion

made no mention of the MSM. The reference I used, Newsbusters, did!
Subsequent posts by you listed all sorts of media and press sources. I also saw it on Drudge which has millions of hits daily and is considered a media source? So whats the beef?