Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

brien · Dec 19, 2007, 09:23 am

Quote:

Quote by: Sonart

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I advocate picking fights you can win, for reasons that make sense. Negotiating certainly seems smarter than screwing your own country up the bum by starting senseless, unwinnable wars for reasons that don't exist.

Likewise, the government takes up arms against criminals all the time... we the people have authorized them to do so. So if you take up arms against the government, be prepared for the consequences. Unless that happens to be the consequence you wanted in the first place.

The feds treated the Branch Davidians as armed and extremely dangerous. And guess what... they were right.

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The illogical self serving rationalizations in the above response speak for themselves.

Sonart · Dec 19, 2007, 12:26 pm

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Illogical how??? I've stated since the fall of '02 that invading Iraq was a bad, bad idea, an invitation to quagmire, and it was. It's been a financial, personal and geo-political disaster for the United States. Was I wrong?

And I've stated repeatedly that a government -- any government -- cannot allow armed resistance against it to succeed, and should you take up arms against the government, you should be prepared for the worst. Am I wrong?

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Halofan48 · Jan 6, 2008, 05:02 pm

Finally, finished reading this thread. Well, back to the main topic. I personally believe guns should be banned. This would prevent many crimes from occurring. Some are very difficult to perform without firearms. Like, a man comes home to find his wife sleeping with another man, and in a moment of blind rage picks up a gun and kills them both, later realizing what he had done. Doing that with a knife or hatchet would be a lot more difficult and he'd probably calm down before he succeeded. Plus, the second amendment was made in a time when people had to worry about attacks from Britain and other powers that had colonies in the Americas along with bands of Native Americans attacking towns and people for taking their land and the weapons they could own were usually one shot fire arms, unlike the semi-automatic weapons of today. Since we no longer really have to worry about attacks from Native Americans, and the threat from Europe is minimal at the moment, the second amendment has no real use anymore. Also, those statistics showing a lower crime rate with gun concealment laws probably do not take into account other laws about law enforcement or the like also passed by the state. Unfortunately, a ban on guns is unlikely to occur. One thing that MUST be done is to check the mental and criminal history of a person when they try to purchase a gun. The simple fact of the matter is many of the crimes committed by gun men are committed using legally purchased fire arms. One thing I don't agree with is Osborn's earlier comment to have an elective in High School training teenagers how to use fire arms. That will lead to more school shootings with higher death tolls because those kids who are violent or outcasts will take this elective then use what they've learned to hurt those that have hurt them. The elective would basically cause more harm then good. Also, with higher amounts of guns, people who shouldn't be able to use a gun will be able to find one more easily. You say that criminals would be deterred by more citizens trained and equipped with fire arms. This is debatable. Criminals are often unintelligent and desperate, so I doubt the guy with no money in a desperate situation is going to take the time to observe people, find out who has a gun, so they know who not to rob. They'll just rob the first person they want. Also, don't say that the incident with the of the kid getting shot because he walked on the mans lawn isn't adequate proof when when your also using one incident of a citizen shooting an armed criminal as proof for your point unless your willing to say that your proof is also inadequate or that their proof is adequate. Your choice. Also, if the government is doing all these things against the people, what do you suggest we do about it?

Halofan48 · Jan 10, 2008, 06:26 pm

This thread dead?

Sonart · Jan 10, 2008, 06:29 pm

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I guess for the moment... yeah. Sorry.

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Halofan48 · Jan 11, 2008, 10:22 pm

dang, things were starting to get fun.

Halofan48 · Feb 8, 2008, 07:53 pm

Revival: with more and more shootings happening, this thread should be revived.

Dec 19, 2007, 12:26 pm	#82 (permalink) (top)
Sonart It's simply logical Location: San Diego Posts: 4,316	. Illogical how??? I've stated since the fall of '02 that invading Iraq was a bad, bad idea, an invitation to quagmire, and it was. It's been a financial, personal and geo-political disaster for the United States. Was I wrong? And I've stated repeatedly that a government -- any government -- cannot allow armed resistance against it to succeed, and should you take up arms against the government, you should be prepared for the worst. Am I wrong? . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

Jan 6, 2008, 05:02 pm	#83 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,164	Finally, finished reading this thread. Well, back to the main topic. I personally believe guns should be banned. This would prevent many crimes from occurring. Some are very difficult to perform without firearms. Like, a man comes home to find his wife sleeping with another man, and in a moment of blind rage picks up a gun and kills them both, later realizing what he had done. Doing that with a knife or hatchet would be a lot more difficult and he'd probably calm down before he succeeded. Plus, the second amendment was made in a time when people had to worry about attacks from Britain and other powers that had colonies in the Americas along with bands of Native Americans attacking towns and people for taking their land and the weapons they could own were usually one shot fire arms, unlike the semi-automatic weapons of today. Since we no longer really have to worry about attacks from Native Americans, and the threat from Europe is minimal at the moment, the second amendment has no real use anymore. Also, those statistics showing a lower crime rate with gun concealment laws probably do not take into account other laws about law enforcement or the like also passed by the state. Unfortunately, a ban on guns is unlikely to occur. One thing that MUST be done is to check the mental and criminal history of a person when they try to purchase a gun. The simple fact of the matter is many of the crimes committed by gun men are committed using legally purchased fire arms. One thing I don't agree with is Osborn's earlier comment to have an elective in High School training teenagers how to use fire arms. That will lead to more school shootings with higher death tolls because those kids who are violent or outcasts will take this elective then use what they've learned to hurt those that have hurt them. The elective would basically cause more harm then good. Also, with higher amounts of guns, people who shouldn't be able to use a gun will be able to find one more easily. You say that criminals would be deterred by more citizens trained and equipped with fire arms. This is debatable. Criminals are often unintelligent and desperate, so I doubt the guy with no money in a desperate situation is going to take the time to observe people, find out who has a gun, so they know who not to rob. They'll just rob the first person they want. Also, don't say that the incident with the of the kid getting shot because he walked on the mans lawn isn't adequate proof when when your also using one incident of a citizen shooting an armed criminal as proof for your point unless your willing to say that your proof is also inadequate or that their proof is adequate. Your choice. Also, if the government is doing all these things against the people, what do you suggest we do about it? Knowledge is power, and with it comes responsibility, use it well.

Jan 10, 2008, 06:26 pm	#84 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,164	This thread dead? Knowledge is power, and with it comes responsibility, use it well.

Jan 10, 2008, 06:29 pm	#85 (permalink) (top)
Sonart It's simply logical Location: San Diego Posts: 4,316	. I guess for the moment... yeah. Sorry. . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

Jan 11, 2008, 10:22 pm	#86 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,164	dang, things were starting to get fun. Knowledge is power, and with it comes responsibility, use it well.

Feb 8, 2008, 07:53 pm	#87 (permalink) (top)
Halofan48 Seeking the Unknown Location: Southern California Posts: 1,164	Revival: with more and more shootings happening, this thread should be revived. Knowledge is power, and with it comes responsibility, use it well.