Iran says U.S. report vindicates nuclear program

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Iran having nuclear weapons will be worse than any calamity this may cause. I don't want to go to war, again, and I do hope that it can be solved diplomatically, but we can't just go by this report and dismiss the problem.

I'm not dismissing the problem, just pointing out the United States will not likely solve it by force.
Problems with Iran and North Korea can only be solved diplomatically, if at all. Once we go to war, it exasperates the problem, and only adds more problems into the equation. Basic application of logic ought to tell us that, let alone the innumerable examples offered by history. Recent history should have pushed open our eyes to this very real possibility.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa I'm not dismissing the problem, just pointing out the United States will not likely solve it by force. Problems with Iran and North Korea can only be solved diplomatically, if at all. Once we go to war, it exasperates the problem, and only adds more problems into the equation. Basic application of logic ought to tell us that, let alone the innumerable examples offered by history. Recent history should have pushed open our eyes to this very real possibility. Grandpa h.

Iran and NK are 2 completely separate problems. NK HAS a nuclear weapon and all effort must be made to resolve their problems diplomatically...a nuclear war would be VERY bad for everyone. On the other hand, Iran hasn't yet developed a nuclear weapon, so although the option for a conventional war is way down on the list, to discount the use of force in this matter would be a mistake.

As for you assertion that it will only "exasperates the problem"...I find that completely wrong. The idea behind going to war is to remove the problem completely(i.e. no more leaders making the wrong decisions over there), so although their could be problems along the way, ultimately, the big problem would be solved.

[another day]

so, what's your reasoning for why america can have hundreds of nukes but iran can't have any?

Is it because iran is so dangerous, and america is not? Last I checked, america was the one invading countries all the time, not iran.

America is the one trying to force it's values and convert other countries to their way of life, not iran.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: another day so, what's your reasoning for why america can have hundreds of nukes but iran can't have any? Is it because iran is so dangerous, and america is not? Last I checked, america was the one invading countries all the time, not iran.

I'd love to hear one of these Critical Righties take up the issue of discussing why Mutually Assured Destruction is suddenly an invalid philosophy as well.


I suspect it was only a viable premise when they were supplying "white" enemies.

[Dieval]

Quote by: another day so, what's your reasoning for why america can have hundreds of nukes but iran can't have any?

The US has shown remarkable restraint in the use of nuclear weapons as well as knowing the consequences of our actions first hand. Can you be certain Iran would show the same restraint, given their hatred for a certain country in the middle east?

Quote by: another day Is it because iran is so dangerous, and america is not?

Iran supports various terrorist organizations, one of which held the dubious distinction of killing the most Americans, prior to 9/11, than any other. Sounds like people I don't want having ANY nuclear weaponry. Do you?

Quote by: another day Last I checked, america was the one invading countries all the time, not iran.

Engaging in a war to prevent the proliferation of WMD's is far different then killing US citizens in acts of terrorism.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I'd love to hear one of these Critical Righties take up the issue of discussing why Mutually Assured Destruction is suddenly an invalid philosophy as well.

I don't recall Soviets actively targeting US citizens in acts of terrorism, or supporting terrorist organizations which held the record for most US people killed...although I could be wrong though..

Quote by: Milton Bradley I suspect it was only a viable premise when they were supplying "white" enemies.

Are you trying to make this some sort of racial issue?

[another day]

Quote by: Dieval The US has shown remarkable restraint in the use of nuclear weapons. Can you be certain Iran would show the same restraint, given their hatred for a certain country in the middle east? Iran supports various terrorist organizations, one of which held the dubious distinction of killing the most Americans, prior to 9/11, than any other. Sounds like people I don't want having ANY nuclear weaponry. Do you? Engaging in a war to prevent the proliferation of WMD's is far different then killing US citizens in acts of terrorism.

Remarkable restraint? Last I checked, the united states is the ONLY country to have ever dropped a nuclear bomb on another country. Infact, they dropped two. And it's not just about nukes, it's about the general "wariness" of a country. America has a disgusting record. They have invaded countries all over the map for the past 50 years, they have slaughtered millions of civilians. AMERICA IS DANGEROUS. I am more scared of america having nukes then Iran. Iran doesn't pose a threat to the world because they aren't an imperalist empire that invades countries simply because they want to convert it to their way of life.

Iran is not going to nuke israel, because that would certainly spell the end of their entire country. If they even want a nuke at all, it's to defend themselves against the much more aggressive, much more dangerous nation of israel.

And no, "engaging in a war" is not different then "terrorism" it's the same thing, people murdering other people. No matter, what colorful spin terms to want to use. So what if al quada killed 3000 "US CITIZENS". America has killed millions of citizens of other countries over the years, including half a million in iraq.

It's obvious you see other citizens as worthless and only american lives are of any value.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Dieval I don't recall Soviets actively targeting US citizens in acts of terrorism, or supporting terrorist organizations which held the record for most US people killed...although I could be wrong though.

The Soviets have been targeting American cties with their nukes since they have had the ability to do so.

Quote by: Dieval Are you trying to make this some sort of racial issue?

No, but it seems that debunked philosophy is.

[Dieval]

Quote by: another day Remarkable restraint? Last I checked, the united states is the ONLY country to have ever dropped a nuclear bomb on another country. Infact, they dropped two.

How many times could we have used them since then? Iraq, Korea, Iran, etc, etc, yet we chose not to. It isn't a WORLD WAR yet. Nice to see you down play Japans threat to the world and then blame us for stopping them.. Very nice.

Quote by: another day And it's not just about nukes, it's about the general "wariness" of a country. America has a disgusting record. They have invaded countries all over the map for the past 50 years, they have slaughtered millions of civilians. AMERICA IS DANGEROUS.

Crap. Utter crap. The US has not slaughtered millions of civilians and invaded countries all over the map.

Quote by: another day I am more scared of america having nukes then Iran.

This is very telling.

Quote by: another day Iran doesn't pose a threat to the world because they aren't an imperalist empire that invades countries simply because they want to convert it to their way of life.

No, Iran's not a threat to the world. They're only a state sponsor of terrorism with an illegal nuclear program that they can restart at any time.
Yet the US is worse. Please.

Quote by: another day Iran is not going to nuke israel, because that would certainly spell the end of their entire country.

HOPEFULLY. You'll forgive me if I don't hold much faith in your reassurances.

Quote by: another day If they even want a nuke at all, it's to defend themselves against the much more aggressive, much more dangerous nation of israel.

Wow, again with the misguided blame. It's all the US and Isreals fault for everything. I get it now.

Quote by: another day And no, "engaging in a war" is not different then "terrorism" it's the same thing

Enough said. I get your point that the US and Israel are the worst countries in the world and we need to be snuffed out of existance. I get it, you hate us.

Quote by: another day It's obvious you see other citizens as worthless and only american lives are of any value.

No information provided will change your opinion of the evil US, so enjoy your misguided hate.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Milton Bradley The Soviets have been targeting American cties with their nukes since they have had the ability to do so.

I don't know if I'd consider targeting with a nuke terrorism, in respect to the cold war. But let me rephrase my original statement -
"I don't recall Soviets actively targeting and killing US citizens in acts of terrorism"

[another day]

Quote by: Dieval How many times could we have used them since then? Iraq, Korea, Iran, etc, etc, yet we chose not to. It isn't a WORLD WAR yet. Nice to see you down play Japans threat to the world and then blame us for stopping them.. Very nice.

Wow, your government managed to hold off on obliterating thousands of human beings on many occassions. What restraint! I thought your country was supposed to be good? It's like a serial killer saying "well, I COULD have killed so many more if I wanted to. And where did I downplay japans threat? I said nothing about japan. As a matter of fact I think the nukes dropped were a necessary evil. But that doesn't change the fact that the US obviously hasn't demonstrated restraint with atomic weapons, compared to all the other countrys that have NEVER used them.

Crap. Utter crap. The US has not slaughtered millions of civilians and invaded countries all over the map.

...

Afghanistan
Korea
Vietnam
Iraq
Panama
etc

This is very telling.

Yes, it's very telling that I would be more scared of a country with a long history of aggressive invasion. It's telling that the US is dangerous and war-like.

No, Iran's not a threat to the world. They're only a state sponsor of terrorism with an illegal nuclear program that they can restart at any time. Yet the US is worse. Please.

Iran is a threat, i'll admit that. There are many, many countries that are threats to world peace. But iran is not as big of a threat as the united states, due mostly to the fact that america has invaded two countries in the past decade, causing destruction and death, and iran has not.

Enough said. I get your point that the US and Israel are the worst countries in the world and we need to be snuffed out of existance. I get it, you hate us.

Wrong, I hate the governments of the US and Israel. Not the same thing. The US is a great country, with lots of rational, sane people, with some good ideals.

No information provided will change your opinion of the evil US, so enjoy your misguided hate.

And nothing you say can change the fact that the US government invaded two countries without due reason, and killed over thousands of innocent people.

Majorities in all countries, including America, said they believed that the United States posed a threat to world peace; 58 percent in Spain, 49 percent in France, and 48 percent in Britain and Germany said they believed that threat to be "major."

The majority of the world sees the United States government as a threat to world peace. And guess what? The majority of UNITED STATES CITIZENS see their own country as a threat to world peace! Are we all just deluded? Or maybe it IS true that america has started two wars in the past 6 years?

I've said before, your the type who likes to see america as the good guys and iran/terrorists as the bad guys. The truth is, they are both bad guys, and your just blinded by your nationalistic ignorance. Just like some muslims in the middle east, you share a similar delusion of truth.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Dieval I don't know if I'd consider targeting with a nuke terrorism, in respect to the cold war. But let me rephrase my original statement - "I don't recall Soviets actively targeting and killing US citizens in acts of terrorism"

Really, you don't think have a nuclear arsenal pointed at your house that can be launched at the push of a button an act of terrorism?


You guys really do have a perverse sense of humor in your own little reality, don't you.

[Dieval]

Quote by: another day And nothing you say can change the fact that the US government invaded two countries without due reason, and killed over thousands of innocent people.

Nice....If an attack against us ins't "due reason", I'd hate to see what you consider to be "due reason".
Although Iraq is a different story, there was "due reason" to consider the WMD's they did not account for, to be a threat.

Quote by: another day The majority of the world sees the United States government as a threat to world peace. And guess what? The majority of UNITED STATES CITIZENS see their own country as a threat to world peace! Are we all just deluded? Or maybe it IS true that america has started two wars in the past 6 years?

I love this..." Majorities in all countries"...you know, all countries, Spain, France, Germany and Britain.....all of them.

Quote by: another day I've said before, your the type who likes to see america as the good guys and iran/terrorists as the bad guys.

That's because they are. You're the type that hates the US regardless of what we do. We supply more food, money, aid, troops, etc than any other country on the planet, yet we're the bad guys.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Really, you don't think have a nuclear arsenal pointed at your house that can be launched at the push of a button an act of terrorism?

My "house" is probably not the most high value target for a nuclear strike...but that's not the point.
I'm not entirely sure that MAD falls under an act of terrorism....

Quote by: Milton Bradley You guys really do have a perverse sense of humor in your own little reality, don't you.

The point I was making is that Iran's terrorist organizations had, up until recently, killed the most US citizens in their attacks. Is that not a problem for you??

[Praxius]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Really, you don't think have a nuclear arsenal pointed at your house that can be launched at the push of a button an act of terrorism? You guys really do have a perverse sense of humor in your own little reality, don't you.

Yeah for the most part I just gave up on that brick wall

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Iran and NK are 2 completely separate problems. NK HAS a nuclear weapon and all effort must be made to resolve their problems diplomatically...

No, they are not "completely separate." Both involve the United States, nuclear wepaons and Bush's so-called "Axis of Evil." More to the point, general principles can be applied here.

Do you aim more to attack a country simply because it lacks nuclear weapons, or do you still try your best to solve problems rationally, rather than by force?

It's a simple question, applicable to every nuclear and non-nuclear power.

Grandpa h.

[Dieval]

Quote by: grandpa No, they are not "completely separate."

Yes they are. NK HAS nuclear weapons, while we are moderately sure that Iran nuclear program has been halted.

Quote by: grandpa Both involve the United States, nuclear wepaons and Bush's so-called "Axis of Evil." More to the point, general principles can be applied here. Do you aim more to attack a country simply because it lacks nuclear weapons, or do you still try your best to solve problems rationally, rather than by force?

Diplomatically is obviously the best option. But, as Iran lacks nuclear weaponry, the threat of force to prevent them from acquiring such weaponry is much more of an option then a country like NK that already HAS nuclear weaponry.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Dieval Yes they are. NK HAS nuclear weapons, while we are moderately sure that Iran nuclear program has been halted.

They are still not absolutely unrelated, for reasons already stated. Some very general principles can be applied regarding governments and nuclear weapons.

Grandpa h.