Iran says U.S. report vindicates nuclear program

[Praxius]

agreed.

Oh, and if I were you, I'd expect more spelling and grammar mistakes coming my way.... I know too many words these days to spell them all right

[Matt W]

Actually, that reminds me....Breaking News articles should have the exact title of the article you're quoting.

Editing...

[Dieval]

Seems kinda funny that after we invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam(something Iran coundn't do for years on end), Iran suddenly stopped(not disassembled, mind you) their nuclear program. Hmmm...so, could the Iraq war have influenced their decision, either by removing their greatest threat, Saddam, or by showing how fast we toppled him...? Kinda makes you wonder...

[Osborn F Enready]

The whole idea of "preventing knowledge" in the age of information ,is crippled with illogical beliefs, and doomed to fail.

[bishop]

great to see bush continues to be a total embarrassment to his country.

the fact that he made that speech knowing (or he should have known) that iran shut their nuke program down years ago is.... there isn't a single word to describe it.. sad, pathetic, laughable, unbelievable...

and now, the more the retarded chimp speaks, the deeper he digs the hole.

[grandpa]

Quote by: bishop great to see bush continues to be a total embarrassment to his country. the fact that he made that speech knowing (or he should have known) that iran shut their nuke program down years ago is....

Now he's on this "knowledge" kick, where if Iran even has knowledge of nuclear technology we should consider invading (and no, I'm not taking it out of context--read his actual words).

Here's an old article that makes things weirder:
Pakistan Threatened to Give Nukes to Iran (TechNews.com)

A declassified State Department memo from 1983 says Pakistan clearly had a nuclear weapons program that relied on stolen European technology and "energetic procurement activities in various countries." [Stephen P. Cohen, a State Department expert] said the United States suspected Pakistan was helping Iran in the late 1980s, in part because Pakistan had cooperated with Iran on nuclear matters before Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution. The evidence, however, was murky, Cohen said.

I wonder if the Bush league will try using this angle.

Grandpa h.

[another day]

Quote by: bishop great to see bush continues to be a total embarrassment to his country. the fact that he made that speech knowing (or he should have known) that iran shut their nuke program down years ago is.... there isn't a single word to describe it.. sad, pathetic, laughable, unbelievable... and now, the more the retarded chimp speaks, the deeper he digs the hole.

I know one word, stupid. He was again doign what he did with iraq, it's the WMD bullsh*t all over again. He was trying to scare the american public into supporting his future war on Iran. But seriously, he's that stupid? That peopel wouldn't find out he is lying AGAIN??

[Praxius]

Quote by: Matt W Actually, that reminds me....Breaking News articles should have the exact title of the article you're quoting. Editing...

A'thank ya.

I was originally gonna throw it into polotics/government, then forgot to change the title, let alone spell check it.

[Rainbow]

Your replies make me think that you completely misunderstood the information, guys.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the report indicated it was becoming clear that Iran's enrichment program is for peaceful purposes.

That is the exact reply U.S. governing body expected to be received from Iran.
(I hope I am clear, this time.)

[Praxius]

Quote by: grandpa Now he's on this "knowledge" kick, where if Iran even has knowledge of nuclear technology we should consider invading (and no, I'm not taking it out of context--read his actual words).

Hmm.... let me go Google how to make a nuclear bomb/missile for a second:

How to Make an Atomic Bomb - In easy steps - Softpedia

Something anybody can learn in college or university if one was so inclined.

There..... now we all know how to make a bomb.... man is Bush screwed now, cuz now he has to attack everybody.... I imagine Iran can also Google just as well as us. wow, I just got it in 5 seconds.

Oh wait, he's crazy enough to do it I bet.

Last ditch effort after he blunders and screws up so many times... start the war himself.. shoot one missle at Iran and watch him justify it and start sending more troops there, all at the same time enacting martial law for security purposes.

He already let Pakistan get away with it... what makes any of you think he wouldn't now?

[xyzer]

I've rarely read as much crap and nonsense as I have on this latest bit of sensationalism!
The President receives his intelligence data from several agencies. Intelligence data is derived from opinions of facts obtained from many sources and is opinion not fact! Bush spoke publicly based on intelligence information he received...logical, one would think?
But then a report comes out that contravenes what was in earlier reports..The Weekly Standard
This testimony by Thomas Fingar, Deputy Director of Analysis(of intelligence) given before the House in July 2007 is indicative of how the President and the Congress is advised?

Iran and North Korea are the states of most concern to us. The United States’ concerns about Iran are shared by many nations, including many of Iran’s neighbors. Iran is continuing to pursue uranium enrichment and has shown more interest in protracting negotiations and working to delay and diminish the impact of UNSC sanctions than in reaching an acceptable diplomatic solution. We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons--despite its international obligations and international pressure. This is a grave concern to the other countries in the region whose security would be threatened should Iran acquire nuclear weapons.

And then this tidbit about Fingar?

The inconsistencies are more troubling when we realize that, according to the Wall Street Journal, Thomas Fingar is one of the three officials who were responsible for crafting the latest NIE. The Journal cites "an intelligence source" as describing Fingar and his two colleagues as "hyper-partisan anti-Bush officials." (The New York Sun drew attention to one of Fingar’s colleagues yesterday.)

Any idiot can figure out that even an intelligence Guru can change his comments based on later intelligence. Or could it be some partisan intent? Why are we blaming Bush when maybe it's Fingar we should blame? Whats the problem with Bush using the report for his opinions?Where is he supposed to get his intelligence from? Cheneys office? Why is he criticised when an intellgence group changes its estimate a few months later? Does that make Bush a warmonger? Come on you Bush critics..get real!

Just one more thing..you babbled about no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when British intellgence reports were used as an example. Now you suddenly believe in an intelligence report(estimate) that has been changed within a few months? Could it just be that intelligence information is dynamic and changes often? Could it be you are so antiwar and anti Bush that you cant think clearly?

[xyzer]

Here is another report..On Insight

Insight has a bombshell issue this week. Our cover story is one that directly contradicts this week's National Intelligence Estimate, which concluded that Iran halted its nuclear weapons development program in 2003. Intelligence sources tell Insight that not only has Tehran relentlessly pursued a nuclear weapons program, but it already has plutonium-based nukes--six of them in fact. A sensitive intelligence report given to President Bush says that Iran acquired the nuclear weapons in 1992. Who sold them to Tehran? How has Iran been maintaining and secretly hiding them? Why is the Bush administration reluctant to disclose this information to the public? Go to Insight to read all of the important details!

Please tell me whats going on? Can and do intelligence estimates change?

[Praxius]

Quote by: xyzer Any idiot can figure out that even an intelligence Guru can change his comments based on later intelligence. Or could it be some partisan intent? Why are we blaming Bush when maybe it's Fingar we should blame? Whats the problem with Bush using the report for his opinions?Where is he supposed to get his intelligence from? Cheneys office? Why is he criticised when an intellgence group changes its estimate a few months later? Does that make Bush a warmonger? Come on you Bush critics..get real!

It does make him a warmonger, as he just blaitently repeated the same proceedures, steps, intelligence, propaganda and screw ups just as he did with Iraq. You would think this moron would have looked a little further into the information this time before shooting off about starting World War Three based on his assumptions of half assed intelligence and accusing another country of doing something that it not only isn't doing, but is in fact doing something that they have every right to do.... seek nuclear energy. But Bush likes to get on his little podium and state his Bull sh*t as being fact....

"We Know they're Building Nukes"

"If Iran doesn't want to start WWIII, they should stop trying to build Nukes."

all based on speculations and assumptions, when clearly all the evidence they have provided thus far proved nothing for their case..... they never had a case to begin with, and now there's further proof they don't.. and he continues trying to explain his way out of it as if so long as he sounds like he believes in what he's saying, so will everybody else.

Come off it, seriously now.

Just one more thing..you babbled about no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when British intellgence reports were used as an example.

What were those exactly? The sat. shots of the roofs of those hangers or many of those other photos that showed nothing? It doesn't matter where the intelligence came from, they used it and they presented it as their evidence to justify their actions for invasion, and almost did it again.

Hell even I knew they didn't have a case with what they were showing, but once again.... it seems if you explain something as if you completely believe in it, I guess you can fool the masses into thinking it's actually true

Now you suddenly believe in an intelligence report(estimate) that has been changed within a few months?

No, I never believed their garbage from the first moment they presented it, this hasn't changed my views but only strengthened them.

Could it just be that intelligence information is dynamic and changes often? Could it be you are so antiwar and anti Bush that you cant think clearly?

Myself thinking clearly? Maybe you're so blood thirsty and war mongering that you can't think clearly that they have been feeding you baseless propaganda to goto war in the first place.

The fact that they attempted and suceeded the first and second time was sick enough.... the fact that they tried it again after proven they committed an illegal act in the first place in the first situations, is just pathetic.

If any other country was doing this, based on evidence like this, I imagine you guys would be all pissy about the situation much as I am.... but oh... it's gotta be the US and Bush.... so it's either alright for him to get away with this, or he's had a rough go, so let's just let it slide.

Fok that.... hang the bastard.... if you're gonna take the responsibility of leading and running a country and putting the lives of millions in your hands, you had best be prepared to accept the consequinces of your decisions and actions, and thus far, Bush have been given a green light ever since he took power and there seems to be no letting up, even after something like this.

He is proven to have screwed up, and yet he doesn't back down and tried to twist and reword what he has said..... and he just stands there on TV laughing at himself and the questions like it's obvious he's always been right and it's foolish to question him...... he tries to explain and believe in his lies so much to make them almost sound conviencing..... but it's all so blaitently pathetic it makes me sick.....

....and yet, the very next day, everybody in the US seems to forget what has just occured, they forget all the things he has done up to this point and carry on until his next royal screw up, then people start paying attention again..... then he gets on TV, throws out another lame explination for his actions and opinions and everybody shrugs it off and goes about their business......

My god, I feel like puking out of my nose at it all. By the time he pulls his biggest stunt, his biggest screw up, it'll be too late for anybody to really stand up and say "Oh ok, we had enough of this, we're gonna stand up and fight this injustice" Because it's almost already too late.

His views and opinions have not changed, because he's got a bigger plan of something that can not be interupted in any manner by anybody else.... no matter how many people bitch and complain, no matter how much evidence is provided that goes against everything he stands for and is doing, so long as he has the power, he will continue on his path of destruction, murder, torture and unjustified wars throughout the planet.... he doesn't care about the world, the US or the people of the US......

"George W. Bush doesn't like Black People"

And he doesn't like anybody else much for that matter either. He doesn't give a rats ass about anybody except those paying him.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius It does make him a warmonger, as he just blaitently repeated the same proceedures, steps, intelligence, propaganda and screw ups just as he did with Iraq. You would think this moron would have looked a little further into the information this time before shooting off about starting World War Three based on his assumptions of half assed intelligence and accusing another country of doing something that it not only isn't doing, but is in fact doing something that they have every right to do.... seek nuclear energy. But Bush likes to get on his little podium and state his Bull sh*t as being fact.... "We Know they're Building Nukes" "If Iran doesn't want to start WWIII, they should stop trying to build Nukes." all based on speculations and assumptions, when clearly all the evidence they have provided thus far proved nothing for their case..... they never had a case to begin with, and now there's further proof they don't.. and he continues trying to explain his way out of it as if so long as he sounds like he believes in what he's saying, so will everybody else. Come off it, seriously now. What were those exactly? The sat. shots of the roofs of those hangers or many of those other photos that showed nothing? It doesn't matter where the intelligence came from, they used it and they presented it as their evidence to justify their actions for invasion, and almost did it again. Hell even I knew they didn't have a case with what they were showing, but once again.... it seems if you explain something as if you completely believe in it, I guess you can fool the masses into thinking it's actually true No, I never believed their garbage from the first moment they presented it, this hasn't changed my views but only strengthened them. Myself thinking clearly? Maybe you're so blood thirsty and war mongering that you can't think clearly that they have been feeding you baseless propaganda to goto war in the first place. The fact that they attempted and suceeded the first and second time was sick enough.... the fact that they tried it again after proven they committed an illegal act in the first place in the first situations, is just pathetic. If any other country was doing this, based on evidence like this, I imagine you guys would be all pissy about the situation much as I am.... but oh... it's gotta be the US and Bush.... so it's either alright for him to get away with this, or he's had a rough go, so let's just let it slide. Fok that.... hang the bastard.... if you're gonna take the responsibility of leading and running a country and putting the lives of millions in your hands, you had best be prepared to accept the consequinces of your decisions and actions, and thus far, Bush have been given a green light ever since he took power and there seems to be no letting up, even after something like this. He is proven to have screwed up, and yet he doesn't back down and tried to twist and reword what he has said..... and he just stands there on TV laughing at himself and the questions like it's obvious he's always been right and it's foolish to question him...... he tries to explain and believe in his lies so much to make them almost sound conviencing..... but it's all so blaitently pathetic it makes me sick..... ....and yet, the very next day, everybody in the US seems to forget what has just occured, they forget all the things he has done up to this point and carry on until his next royal screw up, then people start paying attention again..... then he gets on TV, throws out another lame explination for his actions and opinions and everybody shrugs it off and goes about their business...... My god, I feel like puking out of my nose at it all. By the time he pulls his biggest stunt, his biggest screw up, it'll be too late for anybody to really stand up and say "Oh ok, we had enough of this, we're gonna stand up and fight this injustice" Because it's almost already too late. His views and opinions have not changed, because he's got a bigger plan of something that can not be interupted in any manner by anybody else.... no matter how many people bitch and complain, no matter how much evidence is provided that goes against everything he stands for and is doing, so long as he has the power, he will continue on his path of destruction, murder, torture and unjustified wars throughout the planet.... he doesn't care about the world, the US or the people of the US...... "George W. Bush doesn't like Black People" And he doesn't like anybody else much for that matter either. He doesn't give a rats ass about anybody except those paying him.

Your biased and unwarranted hatred of Bush is showing...(that applies to just about everyone here)...

Just where do you think the information for this report that you're praising so much came from? That's right, the same people that let Bush know that Iran was persuing nuclear weapons.

First off, let me point out that Iran broke the nuclear non-proliferation treaty they signed in 1968 by having a secret nuclear weapons program to begin with. Why on earth ANYONE would anyone trust what they say is beyond me.

Second :

Quote by: link the intelligence community in May of 2005 assessed with high confidence that Iran currently was determined to develop nuclear weapons. The intelligence community maintained this assessment throughout this year, 2007. Press Briefing by National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley

To call Bush a war monger and his intel "speculations and assumptions" is a complete lie based on no facts.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Your biased and unwarranted hatred of Bush is showing...(that applies to just about everyone here)...

I think I have enough reason to be biased at this stage, and I have much to warrent my views.

Just where do you think the information for this report that you're praising so much came from? That's right, the same people that let Bush know that Iran was persuing nuclear weapons.

My views are not just based on this one report, but all the other continued reports, links and information I have provided in various threads in here alone, from other countries, from the UN, and many other sources.... more evidence has leaned more to Iran not working on Nukes then there has been towards them making nukes.

The fact that your own country's spies and intelligence has confirmed the previous reports I knew were already true to begin with by those the US sent in originally to gather information and dismissed it because it didn't suit their agenda, and still Bush is in denial, is insanity.

First off, let me point out that Iran broke the nuclear non-proliferation treaty they signed in 1968 by having a secret nuclear weapons program to begin with. Why on earth ANYONE would anyone trust what they say is beyond me.

Why anybody would believe the US or Bush in what they say now is beyond me..... Iran has more brownie points working for them compared to the US. The countries in which the US has invaded or planned to invade all seem to get a lot of sympathy from the rest of the world now a days.

The fact they they started working on nukes and then stopped is irrelevent at this stage.... they stopped. It's an equivilant to someone getting their gun ready to kill someone, then changing their minds.... they didn't commit a crime, as they didn't carry through with their actions and stopped. Maybe they decided that nuclear energy would benifit their country more then nuclear weapons.

Maybe they started on nukes in order to bait the US into a situation like this.... either way, there is zero threat from Iran at this stage and there is nothing I see warrenting a WWIII.

Second : To call Bush a war monger and his intel "speculations and assumptions" is a complete lie based on no facts.

Tit for tat

[xyzer]

Prax, you are so burdened with personal hate for Bush that you are evidently suffering from that famous malady..Bush Derangement Syndrome? It does strange things to ones logic? The evidence and logic about intelligence gathering is there? Its a bunch of guesses derived from various sources and considering the propaganda put out by various sources. Its not fact! It's all we have to go on.

I gave you an example of an intelligence Guru(Fingar) changing his opinion in a matter of months? I mentioned that Bush is not talking off the top of his head...he gets much more 'classified' intelligence than you or I get..or than is revealed to the public. Only those with Bush derangemnt syndrome would try to make the President out as trying to lie to us about the danger of Iran and it's mad mullahs and really deranged dictator who threatens us all with destruction and continually lies about his weaponry?

[Praxius]

Quote by: xyzer Prax, you are so burdened with personal hate for Bush that you are evidently suffering from that famous malady..Bush Derangement Syndrome? It does strange things to ones logic? The evidence and logic about intelligence gathering is there? Its a bunch of guesses derived from various sources and considering the propaganda put out by various sources. Its not fact! It's all we have to go on.

Don't worry my hate is bigger then just Bush at this stage. The funny thing is that you don't seem to see any justification for the outrage around the globe for this moron being in power and everything he has done since he rigged his power.

You can call it Bush Derangement Syndrome, you can call it whatever you damn well wish to to try and de-evaluate my stance, it doesn't remove the facts of what he has done, the decisions he has made and everything he is continuing to do has been based all apon lies and the information he wants to filter.

I gave you an example of an intelligence Guru(Fingar) changing his opinion in a matter of months? I mentioned that Bush is not talking off the top of his head...he gets much more 'classified' intelligence than you or I get..or than is revealed to the public.

Yeah I remember that famous line from the past about Iraq.... "Oh here's all our evidence for you to see (Nothing) - But all the good stuff we can't show you because of national security...."

Turns out they must have had nothing else then what they showed, just like now with Iran. This report is actually a few months old now, and was just recently released, and Bush was made aware of it months ago when it first came about, yet instead of looking into it and addressing it at the time, he continued on his banter about Iran and Nukes, until this report was made public..... THEN he decides to throw his two cents in on the matter and you don't think anything of it?

Only those with Bush derangemnt syndrome would try to make the President out as trying to lie to us about the danger of Iran and it's mad mullahs and really deranged dictator who threatens us all with destruction and continually lies about his weaponry?

Oh please.... and only Blind Bush Followers would make up words such as "Bush Derangement Syndrome" to try and de-evaluate any opposing opinions or evidence that he is actually lieing to you..... He's lied and proven to have lied already in countless occasions since he's been in power..... if you can't see the evidence in front of your face and actually think for yourself about what all is going on and just want to hold this blind faith into someone who doesn't even care about you or anybody else.... well.... what can I say towards your contribution to the issues?

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius Yeah I remember that famous line from the past about Iraq.... "Oh here's all our evidence for you to see (Nothing) - But all the good stuff we can't show you because of national security...." Turns out they must have had nothing else then what they showed, just like now with Iran. This report is actually a few months old now, and was just recently released, and Bush was made aware of it months ago when it first came about, yet instead of looking into it and addressing it at the time, he continued on his banter about Iran and Nukes, until this report was made public..... THEN he decides to throw his two cents in on the matter and you don't think anything of it?

Actually, it sounds like you're making unfounded "speculations and assumptions" or just flat out lying..

Quote by: link December 3, 2007 ... The Director of National Intelligence has today released the unclassified key judgments from the intelligence community's latest estimate of Iran's nuclear weapons efforts and its uranium enrichment program. The classified version of this National Intelligence Estimate was briefed to the President last Wednesday, November 28, and has been delivered to relevant congressional committees this morning. Press Briefing by National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley

Yeah..."Bush was made aware of it months ago"....riiiiiiiiight.

So which is it? Are you making unfound speculations and assumptions or just flat out lying?

Quote by: Praxius Oh please.... and only Blind Bush Followers would make up words such as "Bush Derangement Syndrome" to try and de-evaluate any opposing opinions or evidence that he is actually lieing to you..... He's lied and proven to have lied already in countless occasions since he's been in power..... if you can't see the evidence in front of your face and actually think for yourself about what all is going on and just want to hold this blind faith into someone who doesn't even care about you or anybody else.... well.... what can I say towards your contribution to the issues?

There have been plenty of accusations of lying, but never any proof.

[Charlatan]

So everyone is scared that Iran will build a nuclear arsenal? What is to stop them buying or stealing other countries weapons of mass destruction? What about Syria? Pakistan? If they all decided to nuke America then there would be real trouble, as they are also being sidelined with sanctions aren't they? A nuclear arsenal is a voice to speak with something behind you, and if Iran is not allowed that then they fell disrespected, even though they claim that they are not into this for war but economic purposes. Of course every country wants nukes, because of the fear of not being able to retaliate. It is a way of sitting upright at the table that is denied some countries, so if all countires had nukes, all countries would have more demands, logically, so we can't have nukes floating around to Chavez and company can we, because then there would be chaos. The fact that some countries are given this force behind them from the powers is unfair on the rest, as it is like a higher state of being, joining the nuclear club. But seeing as how all nukes will never be scrapped for fear that there will be some hidden away, there will always be nukes.

So what do the powers do? They patrol each and every country looking for nuke counts so as to determine how many there are in each place - as if one or two isn't enough - and then go home. Does that stop people from using them? The only thing stopping people from using them is that other people will nuke them back before they nuke them too, so it is like a fear that has become a security. Iran was striving for this sense of security, that it would have a voice and got told it wasn't right for the programme from the rest of the world, because they are scared that Iran would hit out right away. This should wake some other people up as to the fact that if they are in, but Iran is out, then why are they in and why is Iran out? Is Iran a renegade state? Is America pulling strings for it's puppet show letting some of the powers in on the deal but leaving others out, or is it something personal? Maybe it is fear over oil price hikes after the arsenal has been assembled? Will Iran bully other states? Will Iran declare war on America, and if so why? They will be declaring war on the whole of the united nations basically, as they will try to stop a nuclear holocaust as soon as possible, so why can't Iran have free reign on nuclear things.

Will Iran demand too much if it has the power to do so? Do you see them threatening a holocaust on everyone that opposes them? Holding the world to ransom? Maybe it is their attitude of being prepared to die for whatever that makes people not want to share nuclear power with them. Well there is nothing that will give them what they claim they want then, which is reactors, and what they would love I am sure, nuclear security.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Actually, it sounds like you're making unfounded "speculations and assumptions" or just flat out lying.. Yeah..."Bush was made aware of it months ago"....riiiiiiiiight. So which is it? Are you making unfound speculations and assumptions or just flat out lying? There have been plenty of accusations of lying, but never any proof.

You clearly don't even watch your own news, which is exactly where I got my information that this document was available for Bush to review back in August I believe they said. I originally heard about it on CNN live on TV, but this web link to ABC news will have to do for now:

Political Radar: White House: Bush Knew in August Iran Had Halted Nuclear W