America suffers an epidemic of suicides among traumatised army veterans

[jose]

America suffers an epidemic of suicides among traumatised army veterans - Times Online

More American military veterans have been committing suicide than US soldiers have been dying in Iraq, it was claimed yesterday. At least 6,256 US veterans took their lives in 2005, at an average of 17 a day, according to figures broadcast last night. Former servicemen are more than twice as likely than the rest of the population to commit suicide. Such statistics compare to the total of 3,863 American military deaths in Iraq since the invasion in 2003 - an average of 2.4 a day, according to the website ICasualties.org. The rate of suicides among veterans prompted claims that the US was suffering from a “mental health epidemic” – often linked to post-traumatic stress.

Should ¨Supporting the Troops¨ continue after they leave the militery

[Chancellor]

Quote by: jose America suffers an epidemic of suicides among traumatised army veterans - Times Online Should ¨Supporting the Troops¨ continue after they leave the militery

They have the Veterans Administration Medical Centers: they can get their mental healthcare in those facilities.

Or we can just smack them upside the head and tell them to stop being a bunch of sissies and get over it.

[Jack]

They have the Veterans Administration Medical Centers

Yeah, there's a real alternative...
Witness slams 'nightmares' of Army medical system

Or we can just smack them upside the head and tell them to stop being a bunch of sissies and get over it.

Since you don't allow reading into your posts, I can only say, as a veteran myself, I really hope you're kidding or being sarcastic.

[Aeschines]

The Veteran services are truly in need of increased funding, personnel, retraining and perhaps a full overall.

I suggest that if you are interested in finding out how bad it can be for veterans that you explore this article:
Democracy Now! | Parents of a U.S. Marine Who Committed Suicide After Returning Home from Iraq File Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Veterans Affairs

A piece on the radio show, "Democracy Now" this past July. Our veterans deserve considerably better treatment than they are receiving regardless of public opinion, national or international, on the war they participated in.

[thx1138]

Quote by: Chancellor They have the Veterans Administration Medical Centers: they can get their mental healthcare in those facilities. Or we can just smack them upside the head and tell them to stop being a bunch of sissies and get over it.

Ok a warning is coming my way, but you're an idiot. Unless your just trying to make a joke and even then that is in really bad taste.

[xyzer]

Isn't this just another bit of supposition and innuendo designed to stir up anti war feeling?

CBS quoted the father of a 23-year-old soldier who shot himself in 2005 as suggesting that the military was covering up the scale of the problem. “

Why in the hell would the military consider it a problem? Stress is not only common in a combat situation, it is all around us. People face death(danger) everyday on the LA Freeways, as they climb into aircraft and drive to work, walk the streets at night? Are we bothering to investigate the levels of suicide for each one of these possibly traumatic events in our every day lives? Is the mental state of a soldier related only to his or her current experiences, or is it some function of earlier phases of life?
Did anyone bother to check out the actions of the father quoted, towards his son, before the kid ever went into the army? Could his treatment have made the kid an latent psychotic?

I fail to see how such a statistic could reflect on the military health care system. It's probably the best in the world and is unjustly maligned by jerkoffs with some sort of an agenda!n Or should I say news persons trying to find something to sensaationalize?

[bishop]

i wonder if the utter pointlessness of this war is the contributing factor to all the depression and suicide...

when a soldier gets back from that hellhole, what do they have to be proud of? that they liberated people who are not friends of america from a dictator only to see something worse rise in its place? do soldiers believe that their friends died for a noble cause?

given the high rate of suicide, i'd wager that the answer to all those questions is a resounding "nothing"/"no".

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood Yeah, there's a real alternative... Witness slams 'nightmares' of Army medical system

I was referring to the Veterans Administration Medical Centers not the Army medical facilities. I said nothing about the quality of care they would receive, I simply said they have that option.

Since you don't allow reading into your posts, I can only say, as a veteran myself, I really hope you're kidding or being sarcastic.

I, too, am a veteran - and not just one of those people who did four years and got out. I was in the Philippines during the fall of the Marcos regime. I've done the war games off the coast of South Korea that always seemed to put the North Koreans on alert (since they kept thinking we were going to invade). I was in the Gulf during the Gulf War and would not be here today if the missile that hit the barracks at Dahran, Saudi Arabia had been aimed just a hair to the left. So, while I wasn't out there in the desert shooting at Sadaam's Republican Guard, I do have some firsthand experience with being in a combat zone (or, in the case of Korea, potential combat zone). Most of us don't end up wanting to kill ourselves (suicide being the ultimate act of selfishness).

In my current job, I get to read a lot of treatment notes from psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists/counselors and, frankly, a lot of what I read is a crock of bovine manure.

So, no, I wasn't kidding or being sarcastic.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: thx1138 Ok a warning is coming my way, but you're an idiot. Unless your just trying to make a joke and even then that is in really bad taste.

See my response to Isherwood's hope that I was kidding or being sarcastic.

[Jack]

Then we just disagree on this topic. I don't see the "drill sergeant" approach as very effective when dealing with mental disorders whatever the cause.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: xyzer Isn't this just another bit of supposition and innuendo designed to stir up anti war feeling? Why in the hell would the military consider it a problem? Stress is not only common in a combat situation, it is all around us. People face death(danger) everyday on the LA Freeways, as they climb into aircraft and drive to work, walk the streets at night?

Especially if those streets are in places like Compton, East L.A., parts of Detroit, the east side of Buffalo. Life is sometimes dangerous.

Are we bothering to investigate the levels of suicide for each one of these possibly traumatic events in our every day lives? Is the mental state of a soldier related only to his or her current experiences, or is it some function of earlier phases of life?

I doubt very much that it was merely the soldiers' experiences in a combat zone that led him to such a state of seeming hopelessness (more likely selfishness) that he saw death as his only option. Most soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who have been in combat don't end up becoming suicidal. No, there has to be something else going on in the person's life.

Did anyone bother to check out the actions of the father quoted, towards his son, before the kid ever went into the army? Could his treatment have made the kid an latent psychotic?

Or how he was treated by his classmates or a whole host of other things. But what it comes down to is this: people make choices and they can choose either to be a victim or a victor.

I fail to see how such a statistic could reflect on the military health care system. It's probably the best in the world and is unjustly maligned by jerkoffs with some sort of an agenda!n Or should I say news persons trying to find something to sensaationalize?

The military healthcare system leaves a little something to be desired (the ultimate example of what happens when you put healthcare in the hands of the government).

[tinybear]

Well, maybe not suicidal, but certainly a lot of vets are quite cranky (I speak from personal observation, folks).

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood Then we just disagree on this topic. I don't see the "drill sergeant" approach as very effective when dealing with mental disorders whatever the cause.

I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with anything I write in these threads. But what it comes down to is this: we all have choices; we can choose to be victims or we can choose to be victors (though the process of becoming victors is not usually easy).

[ZNFYRH]

One major cause of suicide is to avoid deploying in the first place.

Another is the length of the deployments. Air Force gets 6 months at the worst. Army might as well be stationed there and call it going home on leave, instead of pretending like putting your youngest troops there is a temporary thing.

Another is what happens back home during deployments. When a 6 month turns into a 12 months turns into an 18 month, many very good women end up doing some very sad things... including infidelity and divorce. Pregnant women when deployment starts go through it all alone and are single moms for upwards of a year... if daddy survives and comes home. Lots of soldiers have died never seeing their children.

But you end up with troops killing themselves because the one thing they felt like they were fighting for and was their motivation to survive is gone.

As far as calling them sissies... I'd rather not be banned from the site permanently.

I can just say that, as a veteran who has seen combat, it's one of the small handful of experiences that you have no basis for comment if you haven't experienced.

[tinybear]

Hey, which war were you in? My Grandad fought in WWII and my Dad in Vietnam.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop i wonder if the utter pointlessness of this war is the contributing factor to all the depression and suicide... when a soldier gets back from that hellhole, what do they have to be proud of? that they liberated people who are not friends of america from a dictator only to see something worse rise in its place? do soldiers believe that their friends died for a noble cause? given the high rate of suicide, i'd wager that the answer to all those questions is a resounding "nothing"/"no".

This is what I was touching base on in the thread regarding deserters who flee to Canada from the war..... If they have nothing to believe in, and they feel they would be sacraficing their lives for something most of the country opposes, and those they are occupying hate them, and then even if they survive all that, then they're back home trying to adjust and then risk the suicide issues as stated in here.....

I personally feel it has to do with them joining the military with national pride and heroic intentions, willing to sacrafice their lives for something they believe in, only for the government to use this against them and make them fight in the total opposite. They see their friends blow up, get shot, killed, wounded, everything, then they come home and wonder why the hell were they spared from this? What did they accomplish? What good did they do besides attempting to just stay alive and protect your friends who are in the same situation.

Was is hell.... and an unjust war with no principles is even worse.

[Jack]

we can choose to be victims or we can choose to be victors

That I absolutely agree with. I have spoken frequently about self-control and not being a victim of life. And I was able to come through combat without mental scars (as far as I know). But mental problems are often beyond the control of the person experiencing them. If your mind goes haywire self-control often isn't an option. The "self" has changed. Those of us who fought in more conventional conflicts can't necessarily appreciate what the situation is for those in Iraq. I thought I knew all about terror, but I suspect these kids are experiencing it in an entirely different fashion. And in that case I can't so casually dismiss their problems.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: ZNFYRH One major cause of suicide is to avoid deploying in the first place.

Are you saying some of these people would kill themselves just to shirk their responsibilities? Somehow I don't think that accounts for a large percentage of the suicides.

Another is the length of the deployments. Air Force gets 6 months at the worst. Army might as well be stationed there and call it going home on leave, instead of pretending like putting your youngest troops there is a temporary thing. Another is what happens back home during deployments. When a 6 month turns into a 12 months turns into an 18 month, many very good women end up doing some very sad things... including infidelity and divorce. Pregnant women when deployment starts go through it all alone and are single moms for upwards of a year... if daddy survives and comes home. Lots of soldiers have died never seeing their children.

Yes, being deployed causes a lot of stress on family relationships - especially when the military keeps extending the length of the deployments. Military life is not an easy life, particularly for the spouses and children of the servicemember but people choose that life for a variety of reasons and most of them handle it pretty well. The military provides services to help families deal with the stress of deployments.

[quote]But you end up with troops killing themselves because the one thing they felt like they were fighting for and was their motivation to survive is gone.[quote]This, I think, might be more of an issue. When I was in the Navy, including the Gulf War, it was just a job. I had no illusions about "fighting for my country" or some grand and noble purpose: I was there to do a job. If their only motivation for living was their military mission then there's a screw loose somewhere.

As far as calling them sissies... I'd rather not be banned from the site permanently.

No one has actually called anyone anything.

I can just say that, as a veteran who has seen combat, it's one of the small handful of experiences that you have no basis for comment if you haven't experienced.

That's like saying "If you've never been an adulterer you have no basis for commenting on adultery." See my earlier response to Isherwood.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood That I absolutely agree with. I have spoken frequently about self-control and not being a victim of life. And I was able to come through combat without mental scars (as far as I know). But mental problems are often beyond the control of the person experiencing them. If your mind goes haywire self-control often isn't an option. The "self" has changed. Those of us who fought in more conventional conflicts can't necessarily appreciate what the situation is for those in Iraq. I thought I knew all about terror, but I suspect these kids are experiencing it in an entirely different fashion. And in that case I can't so casually dismiss their problems.

The problems are very often beyond the person's control but what to do about the problems is within the person's control.

I imagine it's about as difficult for these kids in Iraq to deal with whether or not the woman or child walking up the road toward them has a bomb strapped to them as it was for the guys in Viet Nam to deal with not knowing exactly who was friendly and who was supporting the Viet Cong. I'm not diminishing the experience but I am saying that what one does about the experience is within one's control - that's where the choice comes in.

We frequently had scud missiles flying overhead when I was in the Gulf War. Was I concerned about one or more of them hitting the ship I was on? Certainly. Did I let it paralyze me with fear? No. Did I let it affect me after the war was over? No. But those were conscious choices that I made. I'm not saying that executing those choices is easy - though the execution is easier for some than for others - but when it comes to matters of the mind and emotions, much of what we're dealing with is a matter of making choices.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Sometimes returning to a community after "service" creates the triggers that bring out regret

service "clubs" such as the British Legion in the UK enable those who have served to have the chance to meet with those whom can empathise more readily than many in the various medical professions

Medical groups rarely have the correct experience and should be trained to help and understand those who have been in combat

Like life it's not simple and it is sad that we in society cannot acknowledge the work done for us to live in peace by those who are trained to put their live forwards for others.