Witness blames RCMP, Vancouver airport for death of Tasered man

[Praxius]

Quote by: ruksak ..and holding a metal stick up in the air in an offensive and threatening manner. Why is no one mentioning this? Technically, he was an armed combatant.

I also pointed this out as well... there was a level of justification for feeling threatened, but they should have seen that if all these other people were able to walk up to him and talk to him and not feel threatened, why did they? Why did they not assess the situation fully before acting?

It's not like he had a bomb. Yes he was threatening, but if they looked at him, they would know what was wrong. Even the other people knew what was wrong to a degree.

And also think about his mental state.... not only was he stuck in there for 10 hours, not being able to talk to anybody since he basically got on the flight and left his home, he also had an issue with coming in the first place..... logically he would have been awake during the entire flight as well.

So you add on the hours ontop of the 10 he had since he was in the airport, plus the hours he was up getting read and packing to get to the first airport.... I imagine this guy was pretty loose in emotions and deprived of proper sleep, but even I knew he was not being threatening to anybody.... he was taking his frustrations out on the objects, like I've seen many guys do over the years.

[ruksak]

I admit that cops are using them a little too liberally. But in this case I'm not real sure. The guy had a crude weapon and was going bat shit. Police need to recognize when a situation can be resolved peacefully.

Making the suspect feel as though he is in the right and making sure he doesn't feel threatened can be a few psychological tricks to diffuse a situation.

Many of these scenes you can see the cops acting out of disdain because their authority isn't being respected. Which is not always paramount. Sometimes its best to diffuse a situation with tact and psychology.

Quote by: Praxius You're thinking I was implying they should be banned all together?

Yes. I was. I'm having this debate on iidb (another board) as well and I got you confused with someone else I believe.

And frig, even if they couldn't talk to one another due to a language barrier, they could have made hand signals or they could have drew out some friggin picutres..... and pictures are universal, even if you can't read.... if you can make basic pictures, you can talk to anybody.

Sometimes cops are more worried about showing you who's boss than ending a situation without gunfire or electricity. I almost got the sense that they were showing off for the security guards. Whom did nothing to help the situation.

Its kinda unfair to the police in the respect that the guy had been treated in such a f*cked manner for hours before the cops got there. A smart person would have, at some point during this mans 10 hour ordeal, accomplished the task of finding out what language he was speaking. Thats easy. Once they know this they could, in seconds, look up some basic terms on an online polish to English dictionary.

Check this out, I'm smarter than an airport full of Canadians.

Free Polish-English-Polish Translator and online Polish Dictionary.

Powitaninia jak są wy : means "Hello, how are you"?

Robi nie taser mnie brat :means "Dont tase me bro"

I worked with people, many of them very angry, for over ten years as a manager in a supermarket. I blame much of this on the authorities that couldn't find a god damn way to communicate with another human being over the course of ten hours.

How can they be so stupid? A pothead like me coulda fixed that sh*t.

[another day]

See this is the problem with police forces on a whole. They behave as agitators, aggressors with a gung ho attitude. The guy was actually yelling for the police to come because he thought they could help him (someone translated for me). He felt like he was a victim for the way he was neglected and ignored in the airport. At one point he yells "I'm going to sue you all"...he then continues yelling for police...And the cops come in, FOUR of them (totally unnecessary and threatening) and surround the guy, trying to talk to him in english like the f*cking low brow morons that they are when everyone around is yelling that he only speaks russian (although it was actually polish), and then they taser him for no reason because that was there plan from the second some uninformed idiot called them to say a violent crazy man was raising hell (which we see from the video is totally exagerrated. )A better option would have been to get him a chair, motion him to sit down, find a translator, get him a cup of tea/coffee etc. This wasn't some crazy knife wielding crackhead or some huge drunk Hells angel guy. He was not a threat to anyone. All the situation took was some brains not brawn.

These cops should be off the force because it's clear that all four of them have no idea how to do their job properly. Beyond that they should be charged with something, reckless endangerment, assault with a deadly weapon or even manslaughter.

Tasers should be treated like the deadly weapons they are and only be used in situations where a man has a knife or other dangerous weapon. (This guy was holding, what a stapler? give me a break that's just looking for an excuse) Instead of this we have cops like these that have apparently been trained to use tasers anytime someone needs to be arrested. They taser them to get them on the floor, then pile on top of them to arrest him. One cop even had the wits about him to put all his knee along with all of his body weight on the poor guys neck and head. Great move officer! When a taser is fired into a person, it should be treated the same as a gun fire. They have to fill out forms or something, be interviewed when they fire their gun no? Do the same for tasers.

I hope pigs are scared to use their tasers now, because they should be! That is the level of restraint that they should have been using all along! It's sad that an innocent man had to die to teach these meathead thugs a lesson in tacticity.

The other disgusting side to this is the blatent lies that the RCMP has fed the public since the start of this incident. Before the video tape was released, most of the public believed it must have been warranted, because that's how the rcmp spin team made it look. Now after the video tape is released, there is near unanimous outrage because we can see the truth. Yet the lies don't stop here! Oh no, now the public is told to "wait until we hear from all the witnesses" and to "watch the videotape but then put it aside until you hear the rest"...Yeah because eye witness accounts are so much more reliable then a goddamn videotape of the event.

[ruksak]

Quote by: AD See this is the problem with police forces on a whole. They behave as agitators, aggressors with a gung ho attitude.

I have to agree. After thinking on this for awhile and figuring out a way this could have been resolved prior to the police even being called (Internet translation). I can't see as to why the police in this instance had to be tough with him. Bravado isn't as important as keeping a situation calm.

[another day]

Quote by: ruksak ORLY? I am attacking peoples ignorance of the taser, how it is applied and how it leads to death. Do you know what "Excitement Delirium" is? This is the cause of this mans death in this case. Police need to recognize when people are suffering from this phenomenon. The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology - Abstract: Volume 20(2) June 1999 p 120-127 Cocaine-Associated Rhabdomyolysis and Excited Delirium: Different Stages of the Same Syndrome. Excited delirium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia NPR : Tasers Implicated in Excited Delirium Deaths Excited delirium can occur in people that have had no drugs at all. Actually simulating syptoms of a cocaine overdose 700,000 applications of the taser here in America. Only approximately 100 deaths can be connected with the taser. Field Use and Statistics Lots of useful nuggets in there. Here's something else for you to chew on Prax my boy. We can get rid of the taser altogether. But that will do NOTHING to lower instances of suspects violently and physically confronting the cops. The cops will have to use other less safe means of confrontation. Many times they will have to draw their guns and fire. Fact: A cop can disarm and dissolve a knife wielding crackhead with a taser and not get hurt. Fact: Take the taser away and the cop will use his gun 100% of the time in this instance.

No the cause of the man's death was not excited delirium. It was being tasered FOUR times, and then having four 200 pound men piling on top of him, one putting his whoel weight on the victim's neck and head.

By the way, did you also take note of that fact? That he was tasered FOUR times? (the police of course lied about this too, saying he was only tasered once or twice, witnesses immediatly called them on this, and the video shows that to be a lie also) He was tasered at least once when he was already on the floor, with cops on top of him. What they thought he was resisting arrest? HE WAS CONVULSING FROM THE PREVIOUS 3 SHOCKS OF 50000 VOLTS SURGING THROUGH HIS SYSTEM.

It's sad that only the moronic jocks seek to become cops because we could use some intelligent people to fill these positions.

This is nothing short of manslaughter. If night club bouncers or security guards had done this they would already be awaiting a bail hearing.

As for getting rid of the taser, sure it might mean someone who was an actual violent criminal and a real threat, gets killed, but we know the cops would never pull out their guns and shoot an unarmed innocent person like this.

[thx1138]

I could care less about this idiot.

That's not the only one.

That seems to be the problem today, I'm sure these officers also could care less about this man. I quess they never watched the Tom Hanks movie The Terminal.

[ruksak]

Another Day

That was a few hours ago when I posted that. I have been researching the case and compiling the details. 'ED' most definitely was a contributing factor. 4 applications of a taser won't kill you without other causes.

I agree at this point. This was a sad case of bravado charged police and extremely poor people skills exhibited by the airport personnel. I showed how this could have been avoided in hour 1 of this issue. I like how you're ignoring my post about translating.

Tasers are an excellent tool. They are being used improperly with little judiciousness. I would hope that Canadian police forces would stop, sit back and rethink proper use of a taser. Hammers are excellent tools as well, but they don't work as well if you throw them at a nail.

I was too fast to defend the police in this case. I didn't look at all the angles. As well, I think people are being to quick in demonizing the taser.

[Milton Bradley]

Look, if an officer can't secure handcuffs on the perp after one application of the taser, then they should be relieved of duty.


I think the crowd watching plays a significant role in all of this, and when the officers don't feel a sympathetic audience, they elevate the protocol a bit to illustrate to the audience the potential ramifications of "getting involved".


Four applications of the taser is unacceptable, period.


These incidents should be evaluated just like discharging a firearm, and they should investigated in each instance.


I hate to say it, but since you all seem so comfortable with the very concept of roving patrol units, somebody needs to oversee their activities.


Grow that bureacracy...

[Praxius]

Just watching the news again, and apparently and administrator of the airport decided not to call the airports medics, which were 2 mins away.

Also earlier in the video, two airport security guards walked up to him, he looked attentative, then they turned their back on him and walked away. An interviewed security trainer said it was appalling and that the security guards should have at least gave him a chair, sat him down, got him a drink or something, and tried some effort.

Then the cops showed up... I think a lot of people screwed up royally in this one.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Praxius Then the cops showed up... I think a lot of people screwed up royally in this one.

From beginning to the end, a perfect storm of ignorance. All parties, even the Polish fella, f*cked up to some extent. Wielding a crude weapon at what are obviously police is dumb no matter if you understand what they're saying or not.

But the extreme over use of the taser was clearly the most serious infraction. One zap, shows over. But to repeatedly tase him is beyond comprehension. Maybe the idiot cop mistook his violent shuttering from the shock as some sort of defiant resistance? LOL. Ya this case stinks of something rotten. Poor training? Fun with perps? Both?

I'm interested more at this point in knowing what happened at the very beginning that caused this man to get so enraged. Like I said, a few seconds on Google, and I was translating from Polish to English quite well.

[Brillonewt]

ok, so this man, reeking of booze (eye witness report) was stumbling around, screaming, pounding on windows, cops show up, he grabs something (apparently a stapler) off the table, and im guessing brandishes it because hes sure as hell not picking it up to staple anything, and the cops, with it being their duty to protect the other civilians and themselves, subdue the man with the only means they can. He dies, now they are getting in trouble. We give cops this responsibility to take action when it needs to be taken, that is their job, but when they do they take flak for it. What if they hadn't have used the taser, and the dude went nuts and attacked the woman that was there?

[ruksak]

Quote by: Brillonewt ok, so this man, reeking of booze (eye witness report) was stumbling around, screaming, pounding on windows, cops show up, he grabs something (apparently a stapler) off the table, and im guessing brandishes it because hes sure as hell not picking it up to staple anything, and the cops, with it being their duty to protect the other civilians and themselves, subdue the man with the only means they can. He dies, now they are getting in trouble. We give cops this responsibility to take action when it needs to be taken, that is their job, but when they do they take flak for it. What if they hadn't have used the taser, and the dude went nuts and attacked the woman that was there?

My ONLY issue in this case was the repetitive multiple tases he was given. One would be suffice. As well, kneeling on a suspects throat is against the law, even for police.

[Brillonewt]

Quote by: ruksak My ONLY issue in this case was the repetitive multiple tases he was given. One would be suffice. As well, kneeling on a suspects throat is against the law, even for police.

ok, i didnt know about the throat thing, if thats true thats pretty harsh, but i dont know about the multiple tasering thing. They say two, the woman says 4, but she also said that she saw two cops tasering him simultaneously twice, but honestly, i dont think that would be the case. Its not like the cops go in to this situation thinking "man, lets kill this foreigner".maybe she heard four loud cracks go off and assumed each one was a tasering, but those things crack multiple times. Unless she was a taser expert, i would take what she says with a grain of salt... a large one.

[Osborn F Enready]

ruksak said: 700,000 applications of the taser here in America. Only approximately 100 deaths can be connected with the taser.

And that is simply unacceptable.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready And that is simply unacceptable.

OK, Lets say the taser never existed. Of these 700,000 instances in which the taser was implemented, something else would had to have been used to bring these individual situations to a close. I think it logical to assume that in many of these cases a gun would have been used. Maybe the suspect would have been able to harm or kill officers or bystanders because he was not immobilized. 100 deaths out of 700,000 sounds like a lot, yes. But would there have been more if the police didn't use tasers in these cases? According to police testimony they have used tasers in many cases in which the only other viable option was a gun, lethal force.

Suspects wielding knifes, bats, rakes, sticks, metal bars, tire irons rocks, whatever, were taken down without any more damage accrued than a few pin pricks.

When a suspect dies after a taser shock a full investigation ensues. An autopsy is conducted to determine why a non-lethal shock produced a lethal result. Most often the contributing factor is Cocaine-Associated Rhabdomyolysis (acute cocaine toxicity). So what we're talking about is a criminal that is so juiced up on cocaine that he is already dangerously close to having a seizure. Add the that the extreme strain of attempting to evade the police and the aforementioned phenomenon of excitement delirium, and the taser becomes lethal. The little push needed to throw the heart over the edge.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Brillonewt ok, so this man, reeking of booze (eye witness report)

I must have missed that, as that's the first time I ever heard he had any alcohol..... sure it's an airport and all.... but who did he talk to to get a drink? Was he still drinking through the 10 hours he was there?

I think the witness is full of feces.

[Osborn F Enready]

ruksak said: OK, Lets say the taser never existed.

Ok.

ruksak said: Of these 700,000 instances in which the taser was implemented, something else would had to have been used to bring these individual situations to a close.

Agreed, but only because the taser wasn't available, not because it "adds a new choice" that nothing else can fill.

ruskak said: I think it logical to assume that in many of these cases a gun would have been used.

In some cases, not in many. Tasers are often used when guns can't be.

ruksak said: Maybe the suspect would have been able to harm or kill officers or bystanders because he was not immobilized.

Maybe, but that is part of the job risk, and it is under "the job description". If people can't deal with the risks of being a police officer, they shouldn't apply.

ruksak said: 100 deaths out of 700,000 sounds like a lot, yes. But would there have been more if the police didn't use tasers in these cases?

Irrelevant, in my opinion.

Impossible to "accurately speculate".
The taser provides no "new" tactic to dealing with difficult people, only a "muddying of the line" between acceptable force and unacceptable force.

Police are trained, and tasers are but one tool in their arsenal of tools to do their job. It is not a necessity.

ruksak said: According to police testimony they have used tasers in many cases in which the only other viable option was a gun, lethal force.

I feel if that is the case, they should have used the gun, or lethal force.

ruksak said: Suspects wielding knifes, bats, rakes, sticks, metal bars, tire irons rocks, whatever, were taken down without any more damage accrued than a few pin pricks.

What "good" is done by this?

I see it as allowing police to be more sloppy in using force, without harsh consequences, and criminals as getting a likely free pass to jail on the taxpayers tab without risk, as opposed to risking bodily injury for their crime.

There is supposed to be serious risk when you choose the career of criminal, or policeman, and it should be assumed.

ruksak said: When a suspect dies after a taser shock a full investigation ensues. An autopsy is conducted to determine why a non-lethal shock produced a lethal result. Most often the contributing factor is Cocaine-Associated Rhabdomyolysis (acute cocaine toxicity). So what we're talking about is a criminal that is so juiced up on cocaine that he is already dangerously close to having a seizure. Add the that the extreme strain of attempting to evade the police and the aforementioned phenomenon of excitement delirium, and the taser becomes lethal. The little push needed to throw the heart over the edge.

The polish guy who just died from being tasered had no drugs or alchohol in his system, and "most" and "usually" don't cut it when speaking of deaths.

[Praxius]

Information Updates:



CTV.ca | Man who shot Taser video says it changed his life

Paul Pritchard says his life has changed after witnessing and filming the death of a man following a police Taser incident at the Vancouver airport. The 25-year-old Victoria man says he's considering a career in journalism after spending the last two years travelling and teaching English in China. Until now, Pritchard has been content to travel the world -- but now he's making long-term plans. Pritchard's video of the Oct. 14 death of Robert Dziekanski after the Polish man was zapped by an RCMP Taser is receiving worldwide attention. He flew to New York to appear today on a U.S. national television network morning program. Pritchard says he believes his video recording will contribute to changes in police tactics in Canada when it comes to use of force.

Ambassador Piotr Ogrodzinksi

Poland seeks to discuss Taser shooting with Canadian ambassador

Canada's ambassador to Poland has been invited to sit down with Polish officials in Warsaw on Monday to discuss the death of Robert Dziekanski after he was stunned by an RCMP Taser at Vancouver International Airport. Many Poles view it as a case of excessive force by police using a weapon that may be unsafe, Piotr Ogrodzinski, the Polish ambassador to Canada, said in Ottawa on Thursday. Ogrodzinski told CBC News the Polish embassy has been flooded with e-mails and phone calls from Canadians expressing sympathy and outrage over what happened to Dziekanski on Oct. 14. "I believe Canadians are extremely compassionate and they have this feeling of sympathy … to help someone who seems to be helpless and disoriented." Ogrodzinski said he has seen the Taser video many times and finds it sad — particularly when it appears Dziekanski might have been relieved to see the RCMP arrive. "The video does not give us a clear recording of what he was shouting but what I have heard in Polish is the beginning … Pol, which could be either polizja — in other words calling for police — or pomocy, which in Polish means help," Ogrodzinski said. Ogrodzinski said his country has "invited" Canada's ambassador in Warsaw to meet Polish officials on Monday to discuss the Dziekanski case and how it might unfold. He also had praise for Paul Pritchard, the man who videotaped and later released the Taser video, calling him a "global citizen."

Ottawa police zap officer with Taser to show device's safety

An Ottawa police officer was zapped with up to 50,000 volts of electricity in front of CBC reporters Thursday in an attempt to demonstrate that the Taser that delivered the jolt is safe when used properly. Staff Sgt. Mike Maloney, who was kneeling as his colleague Sgt. Mark Barclay shot him with the device, stiffened suddenly and fell forward silently with his knees still partly bent, twitching slightly for a few seconds. When asked moments later how he was, he responded: "I'm fine. Do you want me to get up and run?" The demonstration was put on hours after the release of a video showing the last moments of Robert Dziekanski, a man who died after being shocked with a Taser by RCMP officers at the Vancouver airport in October, renewing controversy over the safety of the stun guns. Ottawa police, who have used Tasers for six years, would not comment on that incident. But Barclay, who trains officers on when to use the devices and when not to, insisted that when used properly, the device can save lives. "Sometime down road … you're going run into someone who can take a tremendous amount of pain," Barclay said. "And unfortunately, before the advent of the Taser, all we could do to get compliance of that individual was inflict more pain — more pepper spray, use more batons, more officers there, more injuries." The Taser causes muscle spasms that immobilize the person who was shot, allowing police to move in and subdue them. "With this, as I've always said, I don't care how big, how strong, how drunk, how high — you cannot fight off that muscle contraction," Barclay added. Maloney, who was back on his feet within 10 seconds of being jolted, said being zapped with a Taser doesn't interfere with breathing or elevate the heart rate. A key to safe use, he said, is to teach officers that the device is a substitute for other weapons such as batons, not a substitute for talking. Six years ago, the Ottawa police force became the first force in Ontario to start using the devices. It has used them over 100 times since then, including in eight incidents so far this year. Barclay said that just weeks ago, he used a Taser to disarm a suicidal man who had a knife to his own throat. Right now the force has 80 Tasers, and Barclay expects the use of the devices to grow as the force buys more. Barclay said being shot with a Taser should be a part of every officer's training, "so that the officers who are going to use it understand it." He added that Tasers are usually only one factor in deaths during incidents involving the device. "We want a reason why an apparently healthy person all of a sudden has ended up dead on the floor," he said. "Right now, because the Taser is new, it seems to be taking the brunt. But in my opinion, it's not the Taser."

[Praxius]

Day rebuffs call for full national review of Taser use

Federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day shied away from calls for a full national review on Tasers Thursday, saying there are already a number of ongoing investigations and reviews into their use. The call by the federal Liberals follows the release of a video of a man dying after being stunned with a Taser at Vancouver airport. "Any of us who watched that video footage can certainly understand the shock and the grief especially experienced by the mother of the deceased individual," Day said Thursday in the House of Commons. Robert Dziekanski died shortly after he was stunned at least twice with a Taser by RCMP officers at Vancouver Airport on Oct. 14. He was the 18th person to die in Canada in a Taser incident since 2003. Asked whether he would agree to public hearings about the overall use of Taser weapons, Day said that both the RCMP and the commissioner for complaints against the RCMP are conducting investigations into the incident. Day added that Quebec has also launched its own review and that he had already asked for a review of the use of the weapons. He said the RCMP is reviewing the practices related to Taser use and that a report is being prepared. He said he is waiting to see the conclusions of that report before commenting. "We want to make sure things are maintained, that public safety is maintained and answers are found on this particular issue," said Day. Currently there are four investigations into the death of Dziekanski underway. The B.C. coroner, the RCMP, the public complaints commissioner for the RCMP, and the Vancouver Airport Authority are all conducting their own investigations. But Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh said a public-interest review of the issue from a national perspective is necessary. Dosanjh said the government must appoint an independent body to comprehensively review Taser use in Canada and to produce clear national guidelines for law enforcement officers. He said a private report to Day is unacceptable and that any review must be public. Dosanjh said Thursday he has been flooded with angry letters and e-mails as a result of the Taser video, released yesterday. "The number of deaths, and in the manner in which some of them have occurred, demands that we do a national review, the government undertake a national independent review of Taser use across the country." Dosanjh is not in favour of a moratorium on the use of Tasers because he doesn't want to take what he calls " a valuable tool" away from police. But the Liberal MP said too many deaths in Canada have been associated with their use, and they need to be studied. Federal NDP public safety critic Penny Priddy said she is concerned that the RCMP are investigating their own officers in the airport Taser death. Priddy said the Mounties should hand the entire investigation over to Vancouver police, to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest. Poland asks for information about incident Meanwhile, in Warsaw Thursday, Canada's ambassador to Poland was asked to pay a visit to that country's foreign affairs minister to discuss the Taser incident. Piotr Ogrodzinski, Poland's ambassador in Ottawa, said people in his country who have seen the video are distressed. "We want to learn how are the proceedings, how such an investigation is done," said Ogrodzinski. "Something should be done very quickly and perhaps have some conclusion about how to avoid similar tragedy in the future." Last month, Poland sent a diplomatic note requesting information about the death from the Canadian government. Ogrodzinski stressed Thursday's invitation to Canada's ambassador is not a formal diplomatic move.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Ozzy Osborne Maybe, but that is part of the job risk, and it is under "the job description". If people can't deal with the risks of being a police officer, they shouldn't apply.

It's not necessarily about the risk to an officer. It is also very much about effectiveness in carrying out their duty to apprehend and protect society from menacing criminals whom, once caught for their crimes, attempt to evade societies laws with physical retaliation. This sort of behavior cannot stand.

There is supposed to be serious risk when you choose the career of criminal, or policeman, and it should be assumed.

Agreed. And if you decide that you want to both commit a crime and once caught, evade the law. You assume liability for whatever happens during the course of your apprehension. Of course, police aren't allowed to shoot a shoplifter that takes flight. Nor should they. But I see a taser a a reasonable alternative to cap-stun, billyclubs or just plain ol ass kicking take downs.

I asked my brother why he doesn't carry a taser on his beat. He exclaimed for one, the department cannot afford enough units to equip all officers. If he wished, he could buy one with his own money and carry it.

He exclaimed that he doesn't like them for many reasons.
1) He said that he's witnessed their limitations. It gets cold in Indiana and even crooks need to keep warm. Therefor many times during winter months criminals will have on layered clothing, jackets sweaters etc. The prongs of a taser most often will simply snare the clothing and not deliver the stun.
2) He cited that when these devices fail, it creates a problem that would not have existed in the first place. The responding officers will employ the taser, confident that it will work. When it doesn't there is a moment when recourse must be decided upon. Therefor, not using one in the first place makes it so that a more traditional option can be utilized.
3) Limited ranged of about 10 feet.

He went on to discuss non-lethal projectiles and how effective they are. Often, he said, the suspect doesn't realize that he was shot with a non-lethal projectile. The suspect thinks he/she has been shot with a real gun. Stunning them in a dramatic manner.

Also........if a suspect wishes to stand-off with an officer and they have a weapon, they WILL show it. At this time he draws his sidearm. If they don't show it, they don't have it. At 6'7 350ish pounds, he has little issue tossing even large men to the ground.

So yea, there's plenty of room for debate about tasers and whether they are a necessity and not a luxury.

I was under the impression that a taser was an adequate failsafe. As it turns out, often they fail, and thats not safe.

I'm still for tasers being used. But it would appear that they need to be reeled back some.