Iran has reached nuclear milestone: Ahmadinejad

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius No I can't because you don't know what you're talking about, nor have you provided a shred of evidence to support any of your claims. Enriching Uranium is a required technique for both Nuclear Energy and Weapons.... you can not have a decent nuclear power plant without enriching uranium, which you seem to be avoiding as a fact. Allow me to educate you on this matter: Enriched uranium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Enriching Uranimum by the IAEA is monitored and controlled.... not as you put it "HIGHLY discouraged" In fact, if you would like some pretty pie graphs to show the differences in Enriched Uranium: As you can see there is a big difference between enriched uranium for weapons, and enriched uranium for energy.... and as the IAEA stated in their official report: Do the math, read the information and tell me.... no.... present to me your evidence that they are developing for Nuclear Weapons. The fact is, you can't.

Thank you for the great lesson, oh wise nuclear technician.....

Now, to point out some issues with your lesson...

When you said :

Quote by: Prax Enriching Uranium is a required technique for both Nuclear Energy and Weapons.... you can not have a decent nuclear power plant without enriching uranium, which you seem to be avoiding as a fact.

well, that's partially right...I would say -
"you can not have a nuclear power plant without enriched uranium", but there are for more less controversal and monitored ways of getting enriched uranium without Iran creating the potential nuclear weapons material.

You haven't explained why they are choosing the more frowned upon and less controllable option...

According to the IAEA(not wikipedia), that have this to say about Iran:

Quote by: IAEA Implementation of the NPT Safeguards Agreement in the Islamic Republic of Iran Regarding the implementation of Agency safeguards in the Islamic Republic of Iran, I would make four brief points. First, the Agency has been able to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran. Iran has continued to provide the access and reporting needed to enable Agency verification in this regard. Second, Iran has provided the Agency with additional information and access needed to resolve a number of long outstanding issues, such as the scope and nature of past plutonium experiments. Third, contrary to the decisions of the Security Council, calling on Iran to take certain confidence building measures, Iran has not suspended its enrichment related activities, and is continuing with its construction of the heavy water reactor at Arak. This is regrettable. Fourth, while the Agency so far has been unable to verify certain important aspects relevant to the scope and nature of Iran´s nuclear programme, Iran and the Secretariat agreed in August on a work plan for resolving all outstanding verification issues. These verification issues have been at the core of the lack of confidence about the nature of Iran´s programme. Iran´s agreement on such a work plan, with a defined timeline - in response to repeated requests by the Security Council and the Board of Governors - is therefore an important step in the right direction. Naturally, Iran´s active cooperation and transparency are key in this regard. If the Agency were able to provide credible assurance about the peaceful nature of Iran´s past and current nuclear programme, this would go a long way towards building confidence, and could create the conditions for a comprehensive and durable solution. Such a solution would assure the international community about the peaceful nature of Iran´s nuclear programme, while enabling Iran to make full use of nuclear technology for economic and social development. I intend to report on the implementation of the work plan to the Agency´s Board of Governors meeting next month. Statement to the Sixty-Second Regular Session of the United Nations General Assembly

Although it sounds like progress is being made, NO ONE wants Iran enriching uranium.

I do hope things get worked out peacefully, but there is no reason to let our gaurd down or stop trying to prevent Iran from enriching uranium.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Thank you for the great lesson, oh wise nuclear technician..... Now, to point out some issues with your lesson... When you said : well, that's partially right...I would say - "you can not have a nuclear power plant without enriched uranium", but there are for more less controversal and monitored ways of getting enriched uranium without Iran creating the potential nuclear weapons material. You haven't explained why they are choosing the more frowned upon and less controllable option...

Yes I have.... not only for independance and the potiential of marketing their own resources.... but quite frankly they have very few to trust due to past experiences. They certainly do not trust many from the US, and from what I know of things, allowing only UN/IAEA officials to come in seems like a prudent option in their position.

According to the IAEA(not wikipedia), that have this to say about Iran:

It states that they have gone about things in a "Regretable Manner" ~ All I see in that is they went about things differently based on their current situation, but nothing in which has proven any potiential risk to anybody.

One thing you bolded, but left out the rest of the sentance:

Fourth, while the Agency so far has been unable to verify certain important aspects relevant to the scope and nature of Iran´s nuclear programme, Iran and the Secretariat agreed in August on a work plan for resolving all outstanding verification issues.

In fact your supplied link and quotes show a lot of co-operation on Iran's side of things.

Although it sounds like progress is being made, NO ONE wants Iran enriching uranium.

Generalization.... I don't care if they do or not at this point. It's their country, they can do what they want.... when it becomes an actual threat to other nations, then I may change my stance... but there is no evidence at this point to concern myself with.

I do hope things get worked out peacefully, but there is no reason to let our gaurd down or stop trying to prevent Iran from enriching uranium.

It's none of our business to interfeer as it is. The treaty they signed said they can seek Nuclear Energy, not Weapons.... they are developing nuclear energy as all evidence is point to this, they have allowed inspectors in, who found nothing to really raise a flag about.... therefore I don't see an issue, except with the US and Israel shooting off acusations.

And besides.... I don't think Israel of all places has a position to dictate who should have nuclear technology and for what, as we all know their background with nukes.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius Yes I have.... not only for independance and the potiential of marketing their own resources....

So you think they'll go in the market of SELLING enriched uranium?? In what insane twisted world do you believe this could possibly be good for the world??

Quote by: Praxius but quite frankly they have very few to trust due to past experiences. They certainly do not trust many from the US, and from what I know of things, allowing only UN/IAEA officials to come in seems like a prudent option in their position.

The countries in the MIDDLE EAST offered to sell them monitored enriched uranium, yet they chose not to go that route....Hmmm....

Quote by: Praxius they have allowed inspectors in, who found nothing to really raise a flag about....

Except suspicious behavior, a lack of cooperation, recently emptied and demolished buildings where suspected Nuclear programs were being worked on....nope, nothing suspicious at all...

Quote by: Praxius herefore I don't see an issue, except with the US and Israel shooting off acusations.

You try living in a country that would be the first target of a nuclear armed Iran and see if you don't raise some red flags.

Quote by: Praxius And besides.... I don't think Israel of all places has a position to dictate who should have nuclear technology and for what, as we all know their background with nukes.

Yes, the ones they have for defense against the entire middle east...

[jose]

Quote by: Dieval Yes, the ones they have for defense against the entire middle east...

oh but the worlds 4th nuclear power need not declare it and open thier sites for inpection ? how would America be wary of a nation that has still to get nuclear weapons, as opposed to a paranoid nation that is not part of the NPT but hase 200+ nukes?

[Dieval]

Quote by: jose oh but the worlds 4th nuclear power need not declare it and open thier sites for inpection ?

4th? Anyway, no derailing the thread on Iran with Isreals nuclear weapons. Start your own thread if you wish to discuss them.

[jose]

israel has nukes that can reach America, is that not a threat?

[Dieval]

Thread Topic : Iran has reached nuclear milestone: Ahmadinejad

[PatrickHenry]

It's about the hipocrisy and double standards of Uncle Sam.

Because Israel and the US cooperate to bully the Middle East, Israel gets a whitewash of its unauthorized nukes.

But since Iran defies the US on many issues, any attempt to enrich uranium, even for nuclear energy, must not be allowed.

Uncle Sam is such a bloated hypocrite.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval So you think they'll go in the market of SELLING enriched uranium?? In what insane twisted world do you believe this could possibly be good for the world??

Funny, didn't you just suggest they buy some instead of making some? Now why what insane twisted world do you believe this would possibly happen in a manner that they would allow you guys to get your grubby paws into the mess and screw it all up?

And what they have planned is only for nuclear energy purposes, so that would be all they could export.

The countries in the MIDDLE EAST offered to sell them monitored enriched uranium, yet they chose not to go that route....Hmmm.... Except suspicious behavior, a lack of cooperation, recently emptied and demolished buildings where suspected Nuclear programs were being worked on....nope, nothing suspicious at all...

Oh yeah, not suspicious at all.... you know when you throw baseless "Suspected Nuclear Programs were being worked on" Yeah no bias at all, considdering you yourself said suspected, hince not a damn clue.... so they could have been knocking down an old glue factory for all you know... But throw in suspected nuclear program.... then OOOOoooOOOoooo.... what if he's right? *Bites nails*

and besides, even if they were "Suspected Nuclear Program" Buildings being demolished..... who cares? They already admitted they're working on a nuclear program for energy..... where's the shock? I imagine they'd go through a few buildings and projects..... what's the point?

You try living in a country that would be the first target of a nuclear armed Iran and see if you don't raise some red flags.

See if they had some brains, perhaps they should stop the bickering, and offer assistance and make peach and give each other big warm hugs and kisses... and maybe a little squeeze on the bums.

See if they could help with their nuclear program and if they don't want the help then stay the hell out of their way. If they detect a bomb test, then you just blow the snot out of Iran, it's pretty simple.... but freaking out over energy at this point is jumping the gun would you not say? Remember the WWIII speech from Bush

Yes, the ones they have for defense against the entire middle east...

Well right to bear arms mentality then.... the neighbor has a gun, so I should have a gun in defense.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius Funny, didn't you just suggest they buy some instead of making some? Now why what insane twisted world do you believe this would possibly happen in a manner that they would allow you guys to get your grubby paws into the mess and screw it all up? And what they have planned is only for nuclear energy purposes, so that would be all they could export. Oh yeah, not suspicious at all.... you know when you throw baseless "Suspected Nuclear Programs were being worked on" Yeah no bias at all, considdering you yourself said suspected, hince not a damn clue.... so they could have been knocking down an old glue factory for all you know... But throw in suspected nuclear program.... then OOOOoooOOOoooo.... what if he's right? *Bites nails* and besides, even if they were "Suspected Nuclear Program" Buildings being demolished..... who cares? They already admitted they're working on a nuclear program for energy..... where's the shock? I imagine they'd go through a few buildings and projects..... what's the point? See if they had some brains, perhaps they should stop the bickering, and offer assistance and make peach and give each other big warm hugs and kisses... and maybe a little squeeze on the bums. See if they could help with their nuclear program and if they don't want the help then stay the hell out of their way. If they detect a bomb test, then you just blow the snot out of Iran, it's pretty simple.... but freaking out over energy at this point is jumping the gun would you not say? Remember the WWIII speech from Bush Well right to bear arms mentality then.... the neighbor has a gun, so I should have a gun in defense.

Your anti-US sentiment is completely skewing your reasoning skills. You want the IAEA inspectors to do their jobs and when they find suspicious behaviour or areas they want to investigate further they are met with complete buildings being destroyed or emptied completely prior to inspections. You dismiss these actions as reasonable behavior.

I hope it turns out their program is only for power and not weapons, but we have every right to be skeptical of their program.

I'm done with this.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval Your anti-US sentiment is completely skewing your reasoning skills. You want the IAEA inspectors to do their jobs and when they find suspicious behaviour or areas they want to investigate further they are met with complete buildings being destroyed or emptied completely prior to inspections. You dismiss these actions as reasonable behavior.

I'll dismiss them because the only time I ever heard about this is from you.

First show me where a report claims buildings were demolished prior to their arrival and maybe I'll respond to that..... In the last few links you have supplied, there was no mention of this, so I have no clue where you got this.

Who's reasoning skills are being skewed?

You provide no information on something you claim, and complain my view is skewed when I don't believe what you say, just because you want me to take your word for it? The world doesn't work that way, sorry.

I hope it turns out their program is only for power and not weapons, but we have every right to be skeptical of their program. I'm done with this.

Just as they have every right to develop it..... and if you're done... good... cuz you clearly see where things are not adding up for your side of the argument.

I get questioned on things, I supply references.... you get questioned, you supply something that doesn't back you up, or has no relation at all and then you're "Done with this?"

Thanks for conviencing me your side is the right side of the argument

[Dieval]

Quote by: Praxius I'll dismiss them because the only time I ever heard about this is from you. First show me where a report claims buildings were demolished prior to their arrival and maybe I'll respond to that..... In the last few links you have supplied, there was no mention of this, so I have no clue where you got this. Who's reasoning skills are being skewed? You provide no information on something you claim, and complain my view is skewed when I don't believe what you say, just because you want me to take your word for it? The world doesn't work that way, sorry. Just as they have every right to develop it..... and if you're done... good... cuz you clearly see where things are not adding up for your side of the argument. I get questioned on things, I supply references.... you get questioned, you supply something that doesn't back you up, or has no relation at all and then you're "Done with this?" Thanks for conviencing me your side is the right side of the argument

My appologies...I thought you read the article I posted in your thread on " US Iran report branded dishonest - 2006:".....

Let me try again, so you have an idea of what I'm talking about -

Quote by: article The UN's suspicions about Iran went into overdrive 18 months ago. The Iranian Vice President, Reza Agazadeh, had just told the IAEA: 'Complete transparency of my country's nuclear activities is a serious commitment.' Then an Iranian opposition group operating outside the country tipped off the inspectors about Natanz, and other nuclear activities Iran had chosen not to declare. Shortly afterwards, the inspectors asked for access to a nondescript warehouse in Tehran called The Kalaye Electric Company. At its heart were the highly-engineered centrifuges required to make nuclear fuel. The problem is, once a country has mastered enriching uranium for energy, it's not far off developing weapons grade uranium if it chooses. Which is why the UN inspectors wanted to test for nuclear particles. 'When they opened the door,' says Charlier, 'everything had been changed. There were new tiles to the roof, everything was brand new. It was still smelling of paint.' More dramatic still was Lavizan, a suspected nuclear site on the outskirts of Tehran. It took two months for the inspectors to get access. When they arrived, the buildings, the equipment had gone. The satellite 'before and after' shot shows gleaming silver buildings being replaced by a triangle of rough brown earth. Iran ready to ignore US nuclear countdown | International | The Observer

THIS is suspicious behaviour for a country that is SUPPOSEDLY not making nuclear weapons.. They completely cleaned out one entire site and demolished another to avoid the inspectors. These are just 2 that they reported on. Who knows how often this happens. Do you see a problem with that????

[Praxius]

From your link, which was back in 2005:

Charlier is frank about what this pattern of behaviour means: 'The way they've been postponing, and trying to gain time, is suspicious. I don't think the IAEA has any facts to support the idea that they have a nuclear weapons programme, but the way that Iran has behaved in all those smaller issues has made the agency suspicious.' The Americans are less cautious. 'There's no question that Iran is embarked on a project to acquire nuclear weapons,' says the assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker. As in Iraq, there's no smoking gun but the circumstantial evidence leaves the US snorting in disbelief at anyone who doesn't share their conclusion.

They "Snort in disbelief at anyone who doesn't share their conclusion?" based on "Circumstantial Evidence" Which in the same paragraph they point out what happened last time when they did this... snort in disbelief? Why wouldn't we be skeptical?

"Oh you guys are fools if you don't trust what we say" ~ Psssh... right.... we'd be fools if we did.... what's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on you?

Naseri's position is that everything the inspectors have found is for nuclear energy. 'What we have is the right, an inalienable right to produce nuclear energy, not just to use but to produce nuclear energy,' he said. He's right. Under the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, each member state is supposed to share its peaceful nuclear technology with the rest. In theory that means that advanced countries, such as America, should be assisting the rest, Iran for example. The US sanctions imposed since the Islamic revolution, along with the West's traditional distrust of Iran, have put paid to that. Iran says that's why it has been so secretive. It went to the black market, built a multi-million pound nuclear programme and decided not to declare significant parts of it because, essentially, it knew everyone would be suspicious if it did. Simple. Nothing to worry about.

Technically if other countries should be assisting them in developing energy it should be Canada over the US, for many reasons as explain above in bold.

They even explain logically why they didn't ask for help, which is what I have been citing and linking already.

Here's an exellent point in your link:

'Who are the Americans to say what we want to have, what we have, and what we should want? All they have done is made every effort that they could to deny us technology.'

Which is exactly what the US has been doing to Cuba for so many years now..... I see no lies in the above quote as it's pretty spot on.

[Dieval]

You didn't even address the suspicious behaviour found at multiple sites the IAEA inspectors encounted, but you were awfully quick to point a finger at the US and declare Iran's innocence.

You go wallow all you want in your anti-US views and I'll hope that Iran's actions don't come bite you in the ass....i'm done(again).

[Praxius]

Quote by: Dieval You didn't even address the suspicious behaviour found at multiple sites the IAEA inspectors encounted, but you were awfully quick to point a finger at the US and declare Iran's innocence. You go wallow all you want in your anti-US views and I'll hope that Iran's actions don't come bite you in the ass....i'm done(again).

Actually I don't normally come back on here later in the day, but I remembered that I didn't respond to that actually, and thus.... here is my response.... and I think you'll enjoy it

1st - How can an Iranian political party actually be a political party, let alone know anything about what's going on in Iran's finer details, if they're not even in their own country anymore?

2nd - These exiled or whatever political bunnies who seem to want to get back into the country and take power, wouldn't happen to have any motives to suggest that there might be some "Suspected Nuclear Facilities?"

3rd - Is there a possibility that they reported these sites, knowing that deconstruction was already in progress from something totally unrealted?

Where is the evidence?

No Evidence means they didn't do anything.

Circumstantial Evidence doesn't hold up in court to convict someone, so why should it be good enough to go around starting wars and killing people?